Using Email Marketing To Connect with Amy Kuphal | Episode 76

This is an unedited transcript and the timestamps don’t match exactly with the final audio. Thanks for your understanding!

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Alright! So, Amy. I would love to know.

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1st and foremost, just to set the tone, set the scene and give people some context for where you’re coming from.

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As we talk about email marketing and messaging and all the things.

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What are some of your guiding values? And how have they sparked any specific or global action in your business?

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That’s such a good starter question. I love it. So you know what I would say. Number one.

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Pop value. That I would put that kind of guides. A lot of what I do in life and in business is authenticity.

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So that is number one. It’s 1 that I think for myself, I know, and I know a lot of people that I talk to. It’s hard.

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Like, we all want to think, okay, we’re showing up. And it doesn’t mean, you know, that we’re not being fake, but but just to be able to show up.

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And dance on that cusp of just outside of our comfort zone of authenticity.

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Has been something that really guides me, and something honesty that I push myself to get better at day over day. Whether it’s in my, the emails that I write, whether it’s in life, all of the above would be my biggest, for sure.

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I love that nuance of like you haven’t quote unquote being authentic, right? Just because it’s something that we hold so so essential to how we show up.

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Aka. Our values doesn’t mean that we have it all figured out right. Intentionality is one of my biggest values, and it’s the one I perpetually struggle with. I feel like I’m constantly.

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Having squirrel brain having shiny and object syndrome not being quote unquote, intentional, whatever that means in any given moment.

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And yet it is still something that I hold to in a very steadfast way. So thank you for sharing that like I care so much about authenticity, but also sometimes I struggle with it, and I think that’s really important to remember.

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Yeah, yeah, it is. And I think, don’t you think that the thing that we choose as our values tend to be the things that.

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One guess, of course we value, but also the things that are challenging to us.

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And it’s like, I said, always dancing that line of.

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You don’t want to. I don’t think any of us in business want to overshare. I think that’s probably not so great of an idea. But where is that line of showing up and being vulnerable?

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To the point that people can feel connected to us.

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Without going so far that we.

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I don’t know regret what we said or feel like we spoke too much. So it really is figuring out. And I think that’s going to be different for every person, but figuring out what level of authenticity feels right to you, and resonates with the people that you’re speaking to.

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Yeah. Yeah. And how can it eb and flow, too, as your business evolves, as your relationship with the person on the receiving end evolves too.

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Yeah.

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The the beautiful dance of business! Right?

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It is.

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So I feel like that has a direct through line to our email marketing cause. That’s that’s how we show up so often in relationship with people, and how we represent who we are and what we do, and and what we want to share with the world. So I would love to know your take on the connection between messaging and email marketing.

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Oh, it’s everything, it is everything. And I love that you asked that question because.

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However, you yeah.

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At the like, its core to your email marketing, strategy.

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And without it we are essentially sending the equivalent of in real life. We get in our actual mailbox, like the junk mail.

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We don’t want to be doing that as business owners. We don’t want to be stuffing people’s inbox.

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With something that doesn’t relate to anything. You know, it’s just emailing to email. We don’t want to do that. But really, having that messaging piece dialed in is what’s going to set your emails apart. So it’s those things that are going to help you. One show that you understand.

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The people on the receiving end. It’s gonna not help them feel understood. It’s gonna help them understand? You.

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And really it’s 1 of those things that I think every business owner should be working to get better at their messaging.

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Yeah, I really like that.

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2 sided coin of. Not only will you be better understood, but you will also show the people again on the receiving end, that they are understood, and I think that relationship is what is so often forgotten.

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So often we think like, Oh, I’m just sending a sales email, or I’m sending a newsletter out into the void, or like.

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I have something very important I need to say, and we don’t think about the exchange.

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We don’t think about the power of like. What if someone who reads this.

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That’s exactly what they needed to hear or see today. What if they sent you a reply? That’s exactly what you needed to hear or see to keep going right. Or what if.

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That 13th or 65th email that you finally send finally makes them a paying client or referral partner. Or, you know, whatever other potential relationship you could have with them.

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I email marketing is such a long game and a short term infusion tool. Right? But I think keeping that that audience and that relationship and that.

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Need and want to be and feel understood is so central. So that was a wonderful reminder.

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Yeah. And I love how you pointed out that it’s both a short and a long term play, because that’s what I found as well. And so even if we dig into the stats of it, about 3% of any group of people that join your email list, 3% are going to be ready to buy right away.

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Alright, just 3%. That means that 97 are going to require some sort of nurturing. And it’s very interesting, because I am definitely of the 3%.

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Where typically I’m gonna jump on someone’s email list.

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When I’m ready to take quick action, so they might send me like a week and a half of emails. And I’m like, yep, sign me up for what you’re selling. Great.

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Then.

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I’m that what’s been interesting is to see that I think a lot of times we think about what we are is what everyone is.

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And to really start to understand that actually, that’s the minority of how people operate. And I was on a call. It was about a week, 2 weeks ago, maybe or so. At this point I was on doing a voice of customer research call with someone who had bought a similar email marketing product, not my own client, but, you know, had gone to someone else.

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Yeah.

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And so I was interviewing her about her client journey.

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From the point that she 1st thought about doing email marketing and her business up into the point that she had purchased that individual’s email marketing product.

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And so I said, Okay, great, how about how long were you on the email list?

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And she told me 3 years.

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Without making a purchase, and I’m not even kidding you, and it was a zoom. So she saw my my jaw drop, and I’m like, Oh, my God! I was like laughing. I’m like, Oh, my God! 3 years! And she goes, I know, I know. And she goes. I opened every email. I read all the things I downloaded the freebies she goes. I didn’t. I was learning a lot from her, but I didn’t know if I’d ever purchase.

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At the 3 year mark she.

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She purchased. What I would say is a decently high ticket item. It was a 997 course.

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But it took her 3 years to get there. And that was such a realization moment for me, because it can be frustrating when you’re doing email marketing when you’re sending week over week over week. And you’re like, Oh, my gosh! And you’re watching. You can watch the behind the scenes. And you’re like, this person’s opened every single email. They’ve clicked every single thing like what is missing? Why are they not buying.

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And it might just be that that person just takes a longer time.

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Yeah, so much of of.

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Sales, is.

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Right place, right? Time, right? Because there are real humans on the other side. They have life circumstances. They have budget constraints, they have mindset blocks. They have real things that are preventing them, no matter how wonderful your messaging is, no one, no matter how high converting your sales. Copy, you know, quote unquote, should be and.

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Yep.

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Yeah, I love that example of 3 years cause I actually had someone. I did a my 1st group setting last year in 2020.

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3. Yeah, okay, my years woo and.

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One of the amazing women who was part of the group.

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Has been on my list unknowingly to me since 20. I randomly did a workshop to a community that we both happened to be part of.

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I had never been in conversation with her. I didn’t even know we were in this shared space, and I didn’t even know when she signed up.

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How she had come to be in my orbit and it was, I think, on like the second the second day of the 3 part series that we were doing live in person, that she was like, oh, yeah, this is how this is how I even came to be in this space, and I was like, Oh, my gosh! That is the magic of the long game. And so I know we were talking even before we hit record about how podcasting is is a long game.

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Marketing strategy. Right? You pour much into your business, your messaging everything that you write in terms of copy and content, and even conversations. And it really does all add up even though it feels like it doesn’t sometimes.

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Yeah, I agree, I agree wholeheartedly. And it’s like. And it’s interesting, too, even with thinking about email. It’s like.

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People like you just mentioned. People can be on our list, and we don’t know like they could have opted into Freebie. They’re on our list.

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We’ve never had a conversation with them, and that was another thing that happened to me recently. I was speaking with one of one of my friends in the business space. And she goes, oh, I just hope she’s a podcast host as well. And she goes, I just had, you know, so and so, guest on my show she mentioned. She knows you.

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Or she knows of you, and but and so she goes. This is her name, and I’ve never seen that name before, so I had to dig in. Turns out she’s on my email list.

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One.

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Wow!

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But the fact that she phrased it to my friend as, oh, I know her.

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Is a very interesting.

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Phrase.

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Yeah.

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So to think about that there are people that genuinely through our emails, through our podcast.

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Feel as if they would say, I know that person because we’re putting out authentic content because we’re showing up regularly.

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In their podcast, in their inbox.

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That they are now talking about us in a great way to other people in the world. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yes, it’s so, it’s so magical and also so frustrating.

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So I would love to know. I mean, we’ve sort of already touched on it, but from a very like nuts and bolts, or or even big picture.

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View. Why is it so important to build this email list? So many people have resistance around collecting emails, or, you know, quote unquote building a list. So why is it important for you.

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Yes, oh, God! Everyone built a list like, if you hear nothing else like, ignore the rest of this episode, build your email list. That is it? It’s hugely important, because when we think about, I don’t know if right now we’re recording, it’s October 2024, Instagram is doing who the heck knows what Instagram is doing. The algorithms are all over the map, you know, a ton of business owners that I talk to are saying that their reach is incredibly down right now, like.

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Yeah.

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Re 80% down from what it was.

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And they’re not changing a thing. So the reality is is that when we’re building the alternative, when we’re building our business through other platforms like social media. We’re putting ourselves at risk.

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Things could be going great. And then next week, something that we have no control over changes.

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And we’re suddenly not being able to connect with the people that we used to be so easily able to connect with.

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Even when we look about 24, about 9 of what you create.

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For platforms like Instagram are going to be seen by your audience.

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If we compare that to email marketing, we’re looking at open rates of 40, 60.

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When it’s done. Well, so it really just comes down to 2 things. Number one. When we have our email list, we own our audience. Okay, we own that platform. We have that direct line of communication with them that isn’t going to change.

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And we our accounts won’t get shut down overnight, you know, algorithms won’t change. So there’s.

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A huge piece there that I think is hugely important. And then the other piece is really just if I’m gonna spend an hour creating.

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Either a real for Instagram or a really well crafted email and send it out. I want it being seen by 50, 60 of my people, not 9.

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You know, just from a return on investment.

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You know, I think email is so important.

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Yeah, that is so, so true. I also.

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Was once at a conference and flow desk was there. I don’t personally use flow desk, but I know lots of people love it, and flow desk was doing this workshop, and they had this idea that really has stuck with me, which is.

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Email is so much more like democratized than social media. Right? Because you.

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Micro business, one person shop like business that has, you know, 200 people on your mailing list.

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Are in the same position as.

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J. Crew, Google, whatever inbox that’s come, or whatever other email is coming through your inbox.

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It is simply who writes you 1st that ends up at the top of your inbox. You don’t get waited in any way, at least not yet. Who knows who knows? For the future? But at least not yet. You have sort of like the same ability to be viewed in an inbox as any other big player who has millions of dollars behind them to run ads.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And that is a really, really.

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Powerful differentiator, for the small businesses, like so many of us.

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And so I really loved that idea of like, Oh, yeah, I can compete with the big dogs. And obviously, you’re you’re not selling the same thing as Jc. Or Google, or whatever else but.

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That relationship to the inbox. It just feels really powerful.

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Yeah. And you said, we have the same ability as them. I would actually go a little further and say, we have a better ability.

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Yeah.

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Because what we tend to see from those big brands is they’re, you know, a brand. They’re a big, you know. Tj, Max, great. They’re sending an email out.

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We’re one person, right? So we are able to show up even more authentically, people like to buy from people. So I think that even gives us a higher advantage in the inbox. When it’s getting sent from your name, people can attribute one person.

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To writing that email and feel really connected to you in a way that I think is a little bit more challenging with big brands.

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That’s so true. And hopefully, we’re less likely to end up in the spam folder, too, because.

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A real person might actually hit reply to us, and we might actually be in conversation. It’s not just coupon code after coupon code after coupon code. So yeah, that’s so true.

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Yeah.

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So okay, along those lines.

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How do we go from?

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Someone, somehow, by the magic of lead magnets, or whatever else getting on our E, our email list to actually making sales. What are some of the.

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Quote high converting emails that we could create. What are some ways to do it? Especially. I know you work with a lot of people who don’t view themselves as being a skilled writer or professional marketer. So what are some of those ways to.

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Go from email list to actual real sales.

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Yeah. So there’s a couple things that I do. It’s really starting. The very 1st step is starting from the understanding that, like, we talked about 97% of the people on your list are probably not gonna buy the 1st time you say, Hey, here’s this thing that I’m selling. So it’s an exposure game. It’s showing that we understand them getting that report back and forth. I know within the way that I send emails and way that I teach email marketing is a couple of different things. We wanna be sending.

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Emails that are going to take the people on our list through a journey.

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So we’re giving them an opportunity to buy right off the bat because there are those 3% that do want to buy right when they get on.

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But then, for the rest of them, we’re really nurturing them in a way that we’re adding a ton of value. So some of the emails that I sent are pure value. Add emails, it’s like, Here’s this awesome tool that you really wanna you know, do, here’s this tip that’s gonna help you out this week on the next email that you write I like to provide a lot of freebies inside. People that are on my list are going to get freebies.

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Because we’re building a little bit of reciprocity in there right.

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They’re also through the freebies, going to be able to get exposed to how I write, what my products look like, the quality of what I’m doing. So again that’s going to help them understand that? Oh, this person, actually, one knows what she’s talking about, and 2 puts things together in a way that’s concise and easy to understand. So the more that we can get people exposed on a list. Too many versions of what our signature offer is.

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Hmm.

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I think that’s gonna help in a huge way, and also asking questions like, really.

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Doing as much as you can to have that inbox be a 2 way. Conversation versus you standing there with a megaphone.

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Because the amount of things that I’ve learned and changed about my own business that have come from direct feedback.

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From people on my list is huge.

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Oh, yes, again, that 2 way relationship. It helped with the the stats like the deliverability stats of this is a real person. This is not a bot. We are not spam over here, but yes, like the real.

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Yep.

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Yes, you’re sending out a sales email or

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Something, to provide value to someone, to eventually.

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Make them a client or a customer right, but.

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They can absolutely be serving you in the meantime, without those dollars invested right? Really love that idea of being open to feedback and.

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Yep.

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And shifting your marketing, or messaging, or pricing, or offer suite, or whatever.

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Based on real feedback from real people you actually want in your ecosystem in your orbit. Right? I think that’s such a powerful reminder that so many of us forget about as well.

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Yeah. And you mentioned, too. I think the other point of this, too, is like the other thing that I really like to share is that.

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People often ask that question, of how often should I sell versus? How often should I give value? My take on that is, you want to every single email that you send, not have it be a sales email. So I don’t want it to get confused. But in every single email that you send, give people the opportunity to buy.

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If they’re ready, because we don’t know like someone like me could be a week and a half. Someone like my friend that I chatted with last week could be 3 years.

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And what we don’t want to do is we don’t want to be sending up that email that week. And they’re like, Okay, now, I’m ready like this. Is it? Like, I’m ready to, you know, work with this individual. And they’re having to dig back through other emails and try to figure out where was the link to get into her course or program whatever. We wanna make sure that every single time we send an email.

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Within that email. There is something that they can click if they’re ready to start now. And the way that I like to do that is through always having within the Ps section like a soft cell. So you’re gonna put your email. All the value adds, gonna be in there. The storytelling might be in there. The, you know, market research might be in there.

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In the Ps. You’re saying when you’re ready. Here are 3 ways that we can work together.

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Number one, free offer number 2, maybe low ticket offer number 3. Here’s my signature. Offer.

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Just so that it’s easy. We want to take the friction out of things for people when they’re ready to buy.

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Oh, love that I also I feel like that’s actually quite empathetic. Right? I feel like so often we’re afraid to sell especially for people who are listening to this, who are into ethical marketing right like. Oh, well, I don’t want to be too salesy. I don’t want to force anything on anyone, but it is actually the most generous thing to do. If you truly believe that what you are creating is valuable is what someone on the receiving end needs and wants.

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Then it is actually the most generous thing to do to show them all right. And here’s how you can have it as easily, as quickly as possible at whatever point you are ready. And then even you had mentioned earlier.

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And I had forgotten to comment on this of like, well, I’m 1 of the threeers, but everyone else is 97. I think it’s really important to remember that even for.

00:19:44.517 –> 00:19:47.517
Lots of us fellow like service providers.

00:19:48.167 –> 00:20:05.167
Kind of work with past versions of ourselves. Quote unquote, right? A lot of the maybe demographics and even psychographics are pretty similar to how we view the world, how we operate our lived experiences. And yet our relationship with money and or our like state of business.

00:20:04.768 –> 00:20:25.768
Could be very, very different. Or I. I have recently been working with a lot of like mamas, but I have 2 children under the age of 3. Just exited the newborn phase like, I’m in a very different position than people who have 2 school age children, for example, right? And so.

00:20:25.818 –> 00:20:43.818
Okay, we’re both mamas. We both have 2 kiddos, but like very different and you know all of our life circumstances, all our business circumstances, all of our money mindset. All of that is such an important factor. And so yeah, I think that’s such an empathetic and strategic.

00:20:43.417 –> 00:20:50.417
And subtle way to do it in that signature line, and or just always keeping in mind.

00:20:50.217 –> 00:20:55.217
How can I sell, but also provide value, like, I think, if you can do both consistently.

00:20:55.517 –> 00:20:58.517
You’re going to see the results you want.

00:20:58.367 –> 00:21:06.367
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, too, it’s like you talked about. And I hear this a lot. 2 people that are afraid to sell or apprehensive to sell.

00:21:07.267 –> 00:21:09.267
What I would say, too, is I.

00:21:08.418 –> 00:21:14.418
I really would keep that soft cell in emails, you know, if not every email which I would recommend.

00:21:14.918 –> 00:21:18.918
But at least kind of woven through, because what we’re gonna do is if someone gets on our list.

00:21:43.116 –> 00:21:47.116
Everything that I can week over week to add value in your inbox.

00:21:47.267 –> 00:21:54.267
And I’m also a business owner, and just having that understanding and agreement upfront, I think, feels better for both people.

00:21:54.568 –> 00:22:19.568
That’s a really really important point. Along those lines. I feel like we’ve talked around this a lot. So maybe you don’t have much to add, although I’m Ed and you do what does nurturing look or feel like? We hear a lot about the nurture sequence we’ve talked already in this episode of this conversation about nurturing. What is that nurturing element look or feel like in email marketing? Specifically, even if it’s 1 of the examples that we’ve already given.

00:22:19.317 –> 00:22:24.317
Yeah, I think, kind of just going back to what we’re talking about. It’s it’s adding value.

00:22:25.234 –> 00:22:49.234
Right. It’s developing rapport. It’s trying to do everything you can to really know the people on your email list understand what they’re struggling with understand what their goals are, and just keep showing up the same way. And really, what it comes down to is, I think we’ve sometimes strayed so far from common sense. This is sorry, I’d say here, but we straight so far from common sense when it comes to marketing.

00:22:48.717 –> 00:22:53.717
And there’s all these tips and these tactics and these new, whatever.

00:22:53.868 –> 00:23:00.868
But it comes down to relationship building. So if nothing else, if we just think about in real life outside of the inbox.

00:23:00.066 –> 00:23:04.066
How would you approach a brand new relationship with someone?

00:23:04.717 –> 00:23:10.717
Take that and put that into the inbox, and you’re already about 100 ahead of everyone else.

00:23:10.525 –> 00:23:12.525
Yeah.

00:23:10.966 –> 00:23:15.966
Because if we think about if you just met someone you know in real life, a friend.

00:23:15.668 –> 00:23:24.668
And you just like one way conversation started like all over them about like, here’s my thing, and here, like that feels awful like you weren’t probably not gonna end up with a friend.

00:23:24.469 –> 00:23:32.469
Versus. If we think about, how would we actually approach that relationship? And how can we do the equivalent with our subscribers.

00:23:32.317 –> 00:23:35.317
It. Things are just gonna work for you.

00:23:35.519 –> 00:23:39.519
Yeah, yeah, that may. That comes to mind. Like.

00:23:39.468 –> 00:23:57.468
Okay, well, I need these 6 different tools. And they’re all AI based. And I need to like optimize my headlines. And I need to have, like the flashiest thing, and I need to have not 2 emojis, but not 4. It has to be exactly 3, and like trying to play to the algorithms, or whatever rather than.

00:23:57.667 –> 00:24:15.667
Hmm! There is a real human whose inbox I am trying to land in like, how would they be real human like to experience me and my writing, and how I show up. So yeah, I think that is such an important reminder. That human 1st business.

00:24:15.516 –> 00:24:18.516
Element cannot be overstated.

00:24:18.516 –> 00:24:20.516
Yeah, I think that’s so important.

00:24:19.267 –> 00:24:24.267
Yeah. And I think even more. So we talk about AI, it’s like even more so now.

00:24:24.168 –> 00:24:26.168
Hmm.

00:24:24.567 –> 00:24:30.567
Because there’s so many I love. I am like a big fan. I know there’s people on both sides of it. I’m a fan of it.

00:24:30.968 –> 00:24:33.968
However, I’m fan of it in a different way than I think.

00:24:34.267 –> 00:24:44.267
I I don’t know a different way, because I think that the advantage that we have right now is there is. So there are so many people pumping out AI generated content.

00:24:34.418 –> 00:24:36.418
A.

00:24:43.317 –> 00:24:47.317
That lacks personality, that lacks voice.

00:24:43.969 –> 00:24:45.969
Hmm.

00:24:47.217 –> 00:24:51.217
The more we can actually, genuinely, authentically show up.

00:24:51.268 –> 00:24:59.268
You know, people are worried like, Oh, we’re never gonna be able to get ahead all this content through. AI. I’m like, Oh, no, no, it’s different. When you’re showing up as yourself. You are. Gonna stand out.

00:24:58.216 –> 00:25:02.216
Yeah, yeah, and even to have.

00:25:02.617 –> 00:25:16.617
Values aligned brand messaging strategy to put into AI right AI is only as good as the prompts you give it right. I am very like AI, not averse, just like ignorant but I do know that it is. It will only produce.

00:25:06.668 –> 00:25:08.668
Yes.

00:25:08.668 –> 00:25:10.668
Yeah.

00:25:16.717 –> 00:25:33.717
As well as you prompt it to just like a brand messaging strategy guide is useful to hand over to a Va. To a social media manager, to a copywriter, to a graphic designer just like it’s useful for that. It is also just as useful to.

00:25:19.269 –> 00:25:21.269
Yeah.

00:25:33.566 –> 00:25:36.566
Type into AI and say, Okay, AI.

00:25:36.567 –> 00:25:43.567
Chat gpt. Here is my voice. Write something in this voice, and then for you to have real human eyes to. Then.

00:25:44.217 –> 00:25:57.217
Edit to then filter to, then add those very personal anecdotes that you know they would never know that your cat was named sparky, growing up right like adding that level of detail to I think, is important.

00:25:57.517 –> 00:26:06.517
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s a great sounding board. And that’s how that’s why I think I love it so much. It’s like, I’ll have you know, 90 of what I want to write, written.

00:25:58.667 –> 00:26:00.667
Yeah.

00:26:07.017 –> 00:26:14.017
I’ll put it in there and say, can you make this more concise? Can you know just those little things almost like an assistant right beside you?

00:26:12.769 –> 00:26:14.769
Hmm.

00:26:13.317 –> 00:26:22.317
And so that’s kind of cool, and and then they might AI might spit you back something, and you’re like, Well, I like that. But I think that this should have a little more humor. I think this should.

00:26:22.367 –> 00:26:35.367
So it’s really that 2 way, even though it, you know, it’s not a real person, but that 2 way back and forth that I think, really makes it kind of cool, because it gives you those jumping off points that maybe otherwise might not have popped into your mind had you not.

00:26:35.667 –> 00:26:37.667
Been doing that.

00:26:36.816 –> 00:26:38.816
Yes, for sure.

00:26:38.716 –> 00:26:42.716
So more on the like.

00:26:42.567 –> 00:26:45.567
Brass tax side of things.

00:26:46.118 –> 00:27:09.118
Do you have any specific thoughts around? How often to email how often to share sales versus stories? I know we touched on that a little bit. But you know explicitly, sales versus explicitly. Stories. Do you have any thoughts around what people should or can write about in general? Really like when it comes down to K. Thatser is blinking at us. What should we be doing with our email?

00:27:10.267 –> 00:27:19.267
Yeah. So in terms of what I’ll do is I’ll say this, I will, instead of saying it direct, like, this is what everyone for sure, gonna give some direct minimums that I would recommend.

00:27:18.117 –> 00:27:20.117
Huh!

00:27:18.232 –> 00:27:30.232
So minimum number of emails, I would say, do not do less than once per week right once per week is really where I think we should be standing as a minimum. And the reason for that is this.

00:27:24.717 –> 00:27:26.717
Hmm.

00:27:31.117 –> 00:27:34.117
A lot of times again. I when I talk to people they’re like, Well, I don’t want to be too.

00:27:33.967 –> 00:27:38.967
Spammy. I don’t want to be too salesy. I don’t want to show up too often, so I’m only emailing once a month.

00:27:38.617 –> 00:27:47.617
Oh, like that makes me cringe a little bit on the inside. And here’s why is because someone. And again, we think about relationships. If someone just came into your world.

00:27:47.666 –> 00:27:50.666
And you only like call them once per month.

00:27:51.169 –> 00:28:12.169
What’s gonna happen in real life potentially and more so honestly in the inbox is that if we’re popping into their inbox once there’s a good chance that that they forgot who we are. Right? So they’re like, Well, wait, who is this person? They don’t really have this strong connection to us because we just popped in last month. They might forget why they’re on our list, which is going to increase the chances of your emails being marked as spam.

00:28:12.018 –> 00:28:25.018
Because they don’t again. They don’t remember who you are and why they’re on your list. So, keeping that cadence of once per week from their perspective, I think, is a little bit better. And also from your perspective, we’re developing a habit.

00:28:25.167 –> 00:28:27.167
Of writing to our people. Weekly.

00:28:27.917 –> 00:28:30.917
It’s hard to develop an email habit when we’re doing it once per month.

00:28:30.718 –> 00:28:44.718
In terms of sales versus storytelling versus all of that, I would say again, my minimum is, if you are, have something to sell, having a direct like, whether it’s a 3, part, a 5 part sales, sequence, direct sales, sequence.

00:28:44.418 –> 00:28:50.418
No less than once per quarter. I think if we are selling less than once per quarter, that’s scary.

00:28:50.417 –> 00:28:52.417
As a business owner.

00:28:52.669 –> 00:28:54.669
I just I don’t know. I think.

00:28:54.816 –> 00:28:56.816
For me, at least, if I’m not doing.

00:28:56.432 –> 00:29:03.432
I don’t know. I think, yeah, I’m gonna go with that one. I’m gonna lock it in once per quarter no less. But again, that soft can be, you know, as often as you’d like.

00:29:03.517 –> 00:29:08.517
Yeah. Yeah. And again, like, someone might take it upon themselves.

00:29:08.917 –> 00:29:15.917
To reach out and say, Hey, can I work with you? I love what you’re putting out there right? And especially if we have those little gentle reminders.

00:29:15.918 –> 00:29:38.918
But I I what especially rang true for me. Was that like you might just forget about them like, think of that person that you see once a month at like. I don’t know if you go to your chamber networking events, and they only see it once a month, and, like you, see the same person. It’s the face that you recognize, but you cannot. For the life you remember their name right, or like your name, they might recognize your name and your inbox, but, like they cannot for the life of them, remember.

00:29:38.932 –> 00:29:42.932
Why, you’re even in their inbox, or for sure, if you like.

00:29:43.417 –> 00:30:03.417
Are part of a bundle, and or like a summit or something. And they thought in the moment, I really want to download this person’s freebie, and then, like they cannot remember, because they had 25 freebies at the same time. Come through. I have many, many people in my inbox who I’m like, Wait, who? Who is this person? How did they get my email address?

00:30:03.416 –> 00:30:05.416
And so.

00:30:05.417 –> 00:30:09.417
Yeah, I love that that once a week minimum. And also the idea of like.

00:30:09.868 –> 00:30:27.868
For your own sake, for that habit building sake. For being able to map out all right. Well, 52 times. When are you gonna squeeze those in? Are you gonna do 4 at a time? Are you gonna do one every week? Are you going to do 6 months at a time like, How are you gonna batch that for yourself and your brain in your capacity? Yeah, I think that’s great.

00:30:27.316 –> 00:30:32.316
And then actually one like sneaky tip I have is.

00:30:32.917 –> 00:30:35.917
In the context of like getting feedback from your audience.

00:30:36.566 –> 00:30:40.566
If you have a poll question once a week.

00:30:40.318 –> 00:31:03.318
In every single email you send. That’s a 52 question survey by the end of the year, and the likelihood of someone replying to 50 a 52 question survey is very slim, but the likelihood of like a handful of people replying to one question, Every so often is, is pretty high, right? So, that’s like one of my favorite tips. And like perks of emailing weekly. Is that.

00:31:04.129 –> 00:31:06.129
Potential for feedback. As you go.

00:31:05.431 –> 00:31:07.431
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:31:07.328 –> 00:31:14.328
So given your specific.

00:31:14.917 –> 00:31:17.917
Story based emails. I know that’s that’s your thing. That’s the thing you love.

00:31:17.918 –> 00:31:24.918
What tactical tip do you have for fellow business owners to apply that same strategy? Or method.

00:31:25.918 –> 00:31:45.918
Yeah, to 1st of all, just don’t think that you have to be a perfect storyteller, like, if you are not someone that naturally thinks like I didn’t grow up naturally, thinking I was some phenomenal writer which is very interesting, that now my entire business is writing email templates for business owners when I would not say, I’m like some born writer that had a journal. You know, that I wrote in every single day. That wasn’t me.

00:31:45.468 –> 00:31:49.468
But what it was is that I realized how powerful writing.

00:31:49.617 –> 00:31:53.617
And messaging can be to forecast a lean on the fire of your business.

00:31:54.018 –> 00:32:14.018
Then it made it so that this is skill that I really wanna learn in terms of thinking about incorporating story into your email again. Don’t expect perfection at first, st and that’s you know, again, we’re all human. So do your best. One thing that works really, really well for me when I’m feeling stuck on. What to write is if you Google.

00:32:13.968 –> 00:32:29.968
Random noun generator. There are a bunch of different random that you simply click and it will pop a word up. Okay, here’s the trick that I use more often than not. I will have this random noun generator pop a word up. This morning. I did a little writing, and the word was phishing.

00:32:29.567 –> 00:32:40.567
So okay, so the word comes up. It’s phishing. The key here is you can’t say I don’t like that one. I’m gonna keep clicking get a better one. You have to go with the one that pops up, which is going to force you to be a little creative.

00:32:40.218 –> 00:32:43.218
So now we take the word fishing, and we say, Okay, great.

00:32:43.917 –> 00:32:45.917
Knowing what I know about my business, knowing what.

00:32:45.818 –> 00:32:59.818
I know about the message that I want to share. So for me, I want to share the importance of marketing. I want to share the importance of really getting marketing strategies. Having authentis of authenticity in your business. All of these things, we know what our business is about.

00:32:59.418 –> 00:33:06.418
How can I use the word phishing, or what past experiences that I’ve had, stories that have come up in my life.

00:33:06.267 –> 00:33:10.267
Could I use the word phishing in and segue into email marketing?

00:33:11.517 –> 00:33:18.517
And so, as a quick share, the one from this morning is, I was like, Oh, God! And again, this is like the vulnerable share for me.

00:33:19.068 –> 00:33:25.068
I was like, Okay, fishing. I’m like, my brother took my daughter fishing one time. Okay, cool, you know all these stories come up. What are all these ones?

00:33:24.317 –> 00:33:27.317
And the one that kept coming to mind is.

00:33:26.917 –> 00:33:28.917
On the dating app, hinge.

00:33:30.267 –> 00:33:33.267
The number of men that have pictures of them holding a fish.

00:33:34.030 –> 00:33:42.030
It’s like every other man it’s like them and like, look at this massive fish that I caught, and that made me laugh. I’m like, okay. So that’s what he makes me feel something which means I’m onto something.

00:33:41.467 –> 00:33:51.467
Sorry, said, Okay, great. Now, on hinge the story that ended up writing out for my email this week, I said, You know, on hinge, I find myself swiping left on like 90% of the profiles.

00:33:51.718 –> 00:33:55.718
Cause. They’re all a picture of this man with a fish and another man with a fish. Another man with fish.

00:33:55.366 –> 00:33:58.366
And the ones that I swipe right on tend to be.

00:33:58.717 –> 00:34:02.717
The ones that are not holding a fish. So my marketing translation, there is.

00:34:02.517 –> 00:34:06.517
More often than not we don’t have to be over the top, or extraordinary. All these things.

00:34:06.316 –> 00:34:09.316
We just need to look at what everyone else in the space is doing.

00:34:09.768 –> 00:34:13.768
And not do that, and by default you’re going to stand out.

00:34:14.567 –> 00:34:16.567
Again fishing.

00:34:14.766 –> 00:34:16.766
So much magic! There.

00:34:16.667 –> 00:34:24.667
Fishing to online dating to what this means to marketing just through again using that trick of that online generator.

00:34:25.220 –> 00:34:33.220
Okay, I’ll have to have you send me a link. Or you said, just like, literally, just Google. And it just like, popped up, okay,

00:34:30.816 –> 00:34:32.816
Yes. Yeah.

00:34:33.817 –> 00:34:42.817
So much gold in that example. Also, I love how your brain made those connections. That’s how my stories tend to be. I had a septic line once. That was something about like.

00:34:42.768 –> 00:34:57.768
Getting slapped in the face of the parking lot at the pharmacy, or something like that, because my daughter was just like perpetually for a few months there. And so somehow, my brain made a business connection, and I wrote about it to my Newsletter list. And so yeah, that style of.

00:34:57.467 –> 00:35:12.467
Real life experience, real life feeling. We don’t want more dead fishes in our life. All right. How can we apply that to business. Again, just that human element is just so important. And then I really like that idea of.

00:35:12.717 –> 00:35:21.717
Look at what everyone else is doing, and then do the opposite right, and not to be contrarian, not to be judgmental simply to

00:35:17.367 –> 00:35:19.367
Right.

00:35:22.116 –> 00:35:24.116
Show them! Hey!

00:35:23.768 –> 00:35:26.768
Here’s something different. Take a peek. Right? Yeah.

00:35:26.716 –> 00:35:29.716
Yeah, yeah, it makes you stand out. And I think that.

00:35:29.366 –> 00:35:33.366
The other key. There, too, is like when we use storytelling like that.

00:35:33.468 –> 00:35:51.468
You get more replies, because now this story I’m sharing, I’m like, Oh, my God! It’s awful like, why am I torturing myself on this awful dating app again, like I keep getting it, and I’m deleting it. And then blah blah! Blah! So not only are people gonna reply and say, yes, I like that marketing message. But you’re also gonna get replies being like, Oh, my God, I’ve tried Bumbleto, and it’s all the same.

00:35:51.718 –> 00:35:59.718
And it’s just this fun, lighthearted back and forth like something else that they know about you outside of specifically what you do.

00:36:00.317 –> 00:36:06.317
And they’ll remember that email, and they’ll remember you for good or bad, for for the story that you shared.

00:36:06.567 –> 00:36:16.567
Oh, for sure. And also like shareability, right? The more relatable, the more shareable it is to and you never know. Yeah. Oh, there? Yeah, that that’s like the beauty of.

00:36:09.268 –> 00:36:11.268
Yeah.

00:36:16.518 –> 00:36:31.518
Of storytelling, of showing up in people’s inboxes, of showing up authentically, as you put it right. Or in the way I frame it like showcasing your values. Right is it gives someone something to latch onto, to spread the word about, to connect with.

00:36:31.416 –> 00:36:34.416
Yeah, so much magic. There.

00:36:34.717 –> 00:36:37.717
So what? Then?

00:36:38.417 –> 00:36:43.417
Is something that you wish you had known about email marketing before you got started.

00:36:43.718 –> 00:37:06.718
The biggest thing is how incredibly important it is to develop authentic and genuine community and relationships in the inbox. I think when I 1st started out marketing. I was doing it the way that so many people do where it’s not that we think we’re like the greatest thing in the world. I’m not saying that that’s how I felt or anyone feels. But we’re coming at email marketing from the perspective of.

00:37:06.617 –> 00:37:13.617
I’m an expert in this thing, and here’s what I’m sharing with you. So it’s this megaphone broadcasting out.

00:37:13.467 –> 00:37:21.467
Versus, yeah. You don’t get replies with that right? So people will get all the information. But you’re not going to get the replies. It’s when we bring ourselves.

00:37:21.918 –> 00:37:27.918
Into that, you know, equal communication back and forth, that you’re going to see more sales. And you’re gonna see more engagement.

00:37:29.517 –> 00:37:32.517
Yes! So so important!

00:37:32.117 –> 00:37:46.117
So then, zooming out, or even, you know, diving even further in up to you, what has been the biggest lesson you learned as an entrepreneur more generally beyond being an email marketer in this thing called business. What have you learned.

00:37:46.767 –> 00:37:56.767
That’s another good one. Okay. So the biggest thing that I’ve learned honestly is, it is harder, and it takes longer than I ever anticipated.

00:37:56.567 –> 00:38:01.567
That is the biggest thing that I’ve learned now. So I started a business in 2,011.

00:38:01.267 –> 00:38:06.267
I actually started in the fitness and wellness space, I grew personal training and nutrition, counseling business.

00:38:06.066 –> 00:38:08.066
In person, one to one.

00:38:08.416 –> 00:38:11.416
Pivoted online about 3 and change years ago.

00:38:11.517 –> 00:38:21.517
Especially in the online space. It’s taking longer, and it’s more difficult than I anticipate. And I think that’s for 2 bold. I think one, my personality. I’m just someone that.

00:38:21.468 –> 00:38:26.468
Tends to think, oh, this task is gonna take me 15 min when it’s like a 15 day task. I think.

00:38:27.222 –> 00:38:32.222
That’s something I’m working on. But I also think we are hearing, and we’re inundated by.

00:38:33.070 –> 00:38:36.070
These messages online, of.

00:38:34.567 –> 00:38:37.567
6 figure business in the next 6 min, and.

00:38:37.600 –> 00:38:42.600
We’re getting all this messaging from people that are making it seem super easy.

00:38:43.167 –> 00:38:47.167
When we’re building a business and same thing. You know, we have listeners that are.

00:38:46.218 –> 00:39:00.218
Parents. I think of it the same way. It’s like you’re gonna have this new baby, and they’re totally reliant on you. And you really have to put so much into it for years and years and years, until it starts to get its own independence.

00:38:51.330 –> 00:38:53.330
Hmm.

00:39:00.717 –> 00:39:12.717
And I think we need to start thinking about businesses in the same way. That is a lot of upfront work, you know. Build your team just like, build our community around us, build those business besties around us, and that’s gonna keep us in the fight.

00:39:12.417 –> 00:39:15.417
For the times that are really challenging.

00:39:16.548 –> 00:39:41.548
Yes, I’m so glad that you acknowledge like this is hard. This will take a long time. Because I do think so. Many of us are like, Oh, well, our job was really hard. I’m just gonna I’m just gonna do my own thing. And like, Yeah, there is so much beauty in it, and there is so much potential in it. And also you might make way way way. Less money than you did in your job.

00:39:42.048 –> 00:39:54.048
For a very long time. Or yeah, it might be just so much more emotional or time consuming than you thought it would be so thank you for acknowledging that, because I think that is something I I feel like.

00:39:55.218 –> 00:40:18.218
Entrepreneurship, freelance, life. All the things are like romanticized because it. There are so many benefits. It is so much more flexible if you are not neurodgent if you are a caregiver, if you are historically marginalized in any way. Yes, absolutely. There are so many advantages. And yet it could also be the hardest thing you’ve ever taken.

00:40:18.357 –> 00:40:20.357
But.

00:40:18.717 –> 00:40:26.717
Yeah, yeah. And I joke with my friends. I’m like that are in this space. It’s like, I sometimes feel like, I’m like, the success really just comes down to.

00:40:26.457 –> 00:40:38.457
How many punches can you take? And still just keep getting back up and like, I’m a very visual thinker, too. And I literally, when I pictured it’s like when we see the boxing ring, and, like the 2 fighters, go in.

00:40:38.518 –> 00:40:44.518
What is interesting is that there’ll have their little match or whatever, and then they go to the corner.

00:40:44.371 –> 00:40:55.371
And they have someone that’s, you know, badging up their face. And you know, doing all this, we need to do that as entrepreneurs. If we think we’re just gonna keep in this fight for 3, 4, 5 h, you know. If it was a boxy.

00:40:49.917 –> 00:40:51.917
Hmm.

00:40:55.354 –> 00:40:57.354
Then we’re gonna be done.

00:40:57.818 –> 00:41:07.818
You know, we need to go in and we need to work really hard. But we also need to prioritize taking rest building in that recovery time, so that we can stay in this long term and be successful.

00:41:09.117 –> 00:41:15.117
Yeah, and leaning on, I talk a lot about like resourcing yourself, or like acknowledging the resources you have.

00:41:14.618 –> 00:41:33.618
So sometimes that is a free accountability. Sometimes that is a paid group that you are part of. Sometimes that’s working with a coach or consultant, or a Va. Or someone to take something off your plate or reflect ideas back to you, or iterate with you. Yeah. Like doing it alone.

00:41:34.317 –> 00:41:40.317
Is a wonderful right out the gate strategy, and not a very sustainable one for very long.

00:41:39.417 –> 00:41:41.417
Yeah.

00:41:40.317 –> 00:41:43.317
So. Yes, beautiful lesson there.

00:41:43.858 –> 00:41:55.858
What additional advice or closing advice do you have for women to take confident, meaningful action, either in their email, marketing, in their business, or in their life in general.

00:41:55.457 –> 00:42:07.457
I think, to show up and start like. Do it messy. Understand that what you might think as your disadvantage, that you’re not as skilled at this thing, or proficient in Xyz.

00:42:07.550 –> 00:42:18.550
Actually is very likely your advantage. If you show up authentically and vulnerably, because people are going to like, you’re going to be more relatable than someone that’s coming in saying, I know all the things.

00:42:18.818 –> 00:42:23.818
So really, it’s going in, you know. I had a business coach one time that would always say, Launch ugly.

00:42:24.117 –> 00:42:31.117
Launch ugly. Write the ugly email, send the awful, you know thing, it’s okay, like none of us were born masters.

00:42:30.216 –> 00:42:36.216
And it’s really about being okay with showing up less than perfect.

00:42:37.255 –> 00:42:40.255
In order to get to that mastery level.

00:42:40.857 –> 00:42:43.857
Oh, such a beautiful reminder!

00:42:43.917 –> 00:42:54.917
So with that, if people want all things, email marketing, all things balanced and restful and supported business, if they want more of you? How can they connect with you?

00:42:54.358 –> 00:43:05.358
Yeah. So there’s I would say, I’m gonna do just like I do in the Ps on my email, I’m gonna give you 3 different options from low to high. If someone just wants to say Hello, I’m real obsessed with threads.

00:43:05.518 –> 00:43:12.518
Lately. I’m on Instagram. I will be in the Instagram Dms if you send me. I’m obsessed with threads, so if you are on threads.

00:43:11.017 –> 00:43:12.017
Perfect.

00:43:12.854 –> 00:43:17.854
Come, follow me on, Fred’s. It’s at Amy KU. Ph. At Amy.

00:43:18.317 –> 00:43:27.317
Threads is popping off right now. So if you’re not on threads and your business owner, I would highly recommend, just as a plug for that to why, I’m so obsessed with it. One.

00:43:26.467 –> 00:43:33.467
You can show up authentically. You don’t have to spend hours creating this real or this beautiful infographic. You’re just typing.

00:43:33.367 –> 00:43:43.367
So you can get your thoughts out there quickly. You can connect with people quickly. You can get market research quickly. That’s really cool. The other advantage that I’m finding is ads. Haven’t entered threads yet.

00:43:43.817 –> 00:43:49.817
Which means your reach is through the roof compared to other social media platforms that have ads on them.

00:43:49.318 –> 00:44:00.318
Right. So you’re getting tons of there. So for sure. Connect on threads at Amy Koof. As well. If you just want free tips, inspiration, all the good email marketing stuff in your inbox every week.

00:44:00.757 –> 00:44:15.757
I’m@amykufall.com forward. Slash newsletter that will get you right on the list, and if you’re like I am ready now, like, I just want to take action. I want to get my emails done for the year. I have a membership called The Inbox, so you can find that at Amy Coufallcom forward, slash! Inbox.

00:44:15.658 –> 00:44:20.658
And essentially, that is a whole lot of things. But at its core it’s an email template membership.

00:44:20.717 –> 00:44:29.717
So every single week you’re gonna get a brand new email template. That’s gonna give you exactly what you need to write to your list. You can tweak a few things, but all of the messaging and stuff is already in there.

00:44:31.058 –> 00:44:53.058
Okay, love, that you are walking the walk in the walk here. Also fascinating. I had not put together that threads yet. And that’s why it like feels so different. I have only, like dipped my little toe into threads and the couple times I have it has felt so much better than Instagram, for example. So really fascinating. There, I will make sure that all of that is linked.

00:44:54.154 –> 00:45:08.154
As well as the mini course that you have around writing better emails, and all the things. So, Amy, thank you so so much for all of your advice, all of your anecdotes, and can’t wait for people to connect with you.

00:45:06.653 –> 00:45:08.653
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.