Publishing Your Book and Staying True To Yourself Along The Way with Marti Statler | Episode 86

This is an unedited transcript and the timestamps don’t match exactly with the final audio. Thanks for your understanding!

13:45:32 This is a podcast where we talk to women in business about purpose and progress.
13:45:53 I’m curious about why we do what we do and how we communicate what we care so much about.
13:45:59 So to that end, I would love to know what’s your current trajectory, your vision for your life and your business? And it can be different than it was yesterday or will be tomorrow, but what’s your vision?
13:46:12 Today I do now.
13:46:12 Okay. Actually, it’s really great because it’s of course you would like lead with this question Because I’ve been like, I’ve been just processing like all of the things like what am I doing? Why am I doing this? Right.
13:46:24 So let me start out by saying that I have been publishing For 16 years, right?
13:46:32 Never set out to publish books. I walked into a company to peddle the insurance that I was selling at the time. And I walked out with a job offer that I said yes to.
13:46:41 And it just so happened to be at a publishing company. They just so happened to put me in acquisitions. So my primary responsibility was to like read unsolicited manuscripts and negotiate contracts, right? So it gave me like a bird’s eye view of the publishing industry as a whole because I was the first line of contact
13:47:00 For the new author coming in, it put me in all of the meetings. So it was absolutely amazing. It was never on the short list. But here I am 16 years later.
13:47:08 Still publishing books. And by the way, I started my company in 2019. So five years ago.
13:47:13 Oh, God, that would have been six years ago. This year is going to be a six year anniversary. You know that I have been publishing for myself.
13:47:20 And listen, like, listen. Publishing like the logistics of publishing is just the logistics of publishing, right? Like step A, step B, step C, like there is an order in which things need to happen.
13:47:31 And anybody can figure out and do that order, right? Like anybody can make that piece happen.
13:47:37 I think for me. Specifically what has set me apart And why I love publishing so much.
13:47:44 Is that a i think i think books change lives. Like, I totally think books change lives. Anybody who has read a book, multiple books can tell you off the top of their head.
13:47:56 A book or two or five that has like still impacted them years after reading it right So I think books change lives. I also think that people just don’t wake up one day and decide they’re going to write a book. I mean, like, yes, they have to decide, right? But usually the content of that book, and I’m very specifically talking about nonfiction books.
13:48:16 But the content of that book comes from their life journey you know education they’ve had, like the school of hard knocks, like, you know, just circumstances, experiences, right? Like qualifies them to write this book. So I know that this life journey that they have taken that they’ve decided to now
13:48:35 Package up in book form for somebody else to consume to shorten their learning curve.
13:48:40 Like that’s not something that I take lightly. By me getting to put my hands on someone’s books.
13:48:46 Like, I just feel, I’m like, wow, you know, like I’m like, they, I have been entrusted with their baby, right?
13:48:56 Yeah. And I love, I love like the marketing aspect and like the strategy behind, okay, how can we you know, like, listen, most books are purchased on Amazon, right?
13:49:07 Like that is the primary source of distribution to like people like you and I that are buying books, right?
13:49:15 The beautiful thing about Amazon and why they have gotten so amazing at what they do is that they have all of our client data, right? I can go on and I can shop for clothes on Amazon.
13:49:26 And Amazon knows me so well that if I’m looking at a specific shirt, they’re like, oh, this is the size that you need.
13:49:31 This is the size you need based off A, your buying habits and B, everybody else who has the same buying habits.
13:49:37 You need this size shirt, right? So they can tell me what I need. They can suggest things to me. So Amazon knows us very, very well.
13:49:45 But um like the con to being an artist or to being an artist, to be an author, also an artist, yeah. And distributing your book on Amazon is that like actually if i wrote a book and you decided to go to Amazon and buy it, I have no idea that you just purchased my book, right?
13:50:00 Amazon is hoarding that client data. So then the caveat, like the thing that we need to get really good at as authors and as business people is How do we make that reader who has purchased my book off Amazon, who I don’t know who the hell they are.
13:50:17 To come seek me out on my social media and on my website and get on my email list.
13:50:22 How many ways from Sunday can we direct the author reading or mean the reader reading our book back to the author, right? So now I have the client data because the data, the people who are consuming our stuff, that’s where our gold is going to lie, right? Like that makes it easier to sell book number two and book number three and the course and, you know, whatever else we decide that we’re going to create some content that someone can consume.
13:50:47 Like that’s where our gold lies. And I love that aspect about what I do.
13:50:54 I love the energy you bring to everything you do and every conversation we have. You are just so fired up.
13:51:03 I think for an average person who thinks book publishing. Okay. And then we just got the response you just gave, which is just so full of passion and fire And I love every part of it.
13:51:16 Thank you. I love it too, actually. I love it too.
13:51:30 Yeah. No.
13:51:19 And I’m sure your clients do too. I think… Actually, I would really curious I think a lot of my clients tend to be a little bit more calm, tend to be a little bit more reserved, not you and I. We really hate each other and bring like we match each other’s energy. But a lot of my clients actually
13:51:45 Yes.
13:51:39 Seem to be a lot softer spoken, whereas i am quite full of life. I like to be vibrant and excited. And I think that really tempers a lot of my calmer clients.
13:51:53 Yeah.
13:51:53 So I’m actually just really curious about the energy of your clients. Are they normally matching you where you’re at or are you like really, you know, lighten that fire?
13:52:02 Underneath them as they get up.
13:52:04 Okay, so I’ve actually thought about this i work with a lot of work with a lot of type A people.
13:52:13 Okay.
13:52:12 I work with a lot of type A women, women who are doers, movers and shakers. They know what they want. And yes, let’s get it done.
13:52:27 Mm-hmm.
13:52:22 But to say that I actually, I’m a fire starter, like I’m a fire starter. Like I talk to people and listen, it’s really great. And I love what I do. Like I’m, I’m a visionary. Like I see things in people like we can have a conversation. And first off, I can’t do your book if I can’t capture your vision, right? So I always want to know, like, what’s the vision? Like, what’s the end result? Like, what are we trying to achieve here? And if I can
13:52:44 That then I can make a damn good book happen. If I can’t capture your vision, then I’m not the right person for you. You don’t want to work with me.
13:52:52 But I feel like when it comes down to that vision.
13:52:57 I feel like when it comes down, like anybody that I work with, whether it’s a client, an author, whether it’s someone who is working with me and my team.
13:53:05 They have to understand and capture the vision of rebel and the heart behind what we’re doing.
13:53:11 And I feel like when I’m talking to people You know, I like expanding their world like i I love talking to them and hearing them talk because I can see the gold inside of them.
13:53:24 Whether they can see it for themselves And I’ve worked with many people who wrote a book but didn’t really have a business. Like the book came before the business.
13:53:34 But man, I just… I don’t know. I’m a fire setter. I just love it. Like I was talking to one lady one day and she wrote a children’s book and she’s amazing. And I’m listening to her. I’m like, do you see what you bring to the table? Like this isn’t just a book. And like, that’s what I love about what I do. It’s not just the book. Like the book is just one piece of content.
13:53:52 That comes from you and is of you and is you.
13:53:56 And there’s so many other things that can happen. Have you considered have you considered a course out of this? Like, have you considered like a coaching program or a membership program? Or have you considered doing like this podcast tour or even freaking consulting with what you’re bringing to the table. And when I
13:54:13 Have these conversations with people. They either get excited because I see it Or they’re like blown away because they’re like excited because someone saw that in them that they didn’t and pointed it out that they didn’t see in themselves.
13:54:31 Girl I know.
13:54:35 Yes.
13:54:26 That actually sounds really similar to my work and my process and Yeah, like, so the exact same things that we’ve done together for your podcast and really any setting where I work, it’s, ooh, I see so many dots that we can connect together.
13:54:44 Yes. Yes.
13:54:45 What do you want to do first? What’s most exciting for you? What’s hardest for you? Okay, who can I connect you with?
13:54:49 Oh, did you see that these two ideas that are seemingly disparate are actually totally the exact same when you find this Good.
13:54:57 Oh, yes. Okay. So listen, so I just recorded a podcast. I didn’t just record it. I recorded. I think it was actually my 50th episode that I dropped in the beginning of January.
13:55:05 Where I talked about that. It’s like, and I talk about how my podcast came to fruition and here’s like.
13:55:11 Like, listen, I don’t lack in ideas. All right. And I laugh because I’m like, I get some really harebrained ideas. You know, some of them work out really well. Some of them not work out really well. But I get all of these ideas.
13:55:21 And I’m like, these are so not connected. Like, I don’t even know what the hell is going on, but like these are just so like.
13:55:29 Off the wall random things. It doesn’t even make any sense. I mean, it makes sense because it’s me right but And it’s like, I liken it to like puzzle pieces. Like I’ve got these like puzzle piece, puzzle pieces like swirling around and they’re not, I don’t know if they’re the same puzzle, but I’ve just got all these pieces
13:55:47 And then I just, I hold on to them. Like I think about them periodically. You know, it’s not like I sit down and like, I sketch out a plan, but I’m just thinking on it.
13:55:57 And one day and one day One day I’ll have an idea And it will totally make sense because puzzle pieces will be like, shh.
13:56:05 They’re together like, oh, now it all makes sense. But yes.
13:56:11 Yes.
13:56:16 Yeah.
13:56:10 Yeah, if only we could… capture that process you know like like systematize the creativity, that would make our lives so much easier. We would be, you know, bajillionaires if we could do that.
13:56:21 Yeah.
13:56:26 Yes.
13:56:23 But it is a special something to have that sort of multiverse brain and be able to pull those pieces together, even if it’s not the most predictable thing, it is really, really special and magical.
13:56:34 Yes. Yes. 100%.
13:56:35 When it does happen. So, all right, that is a glimpse into the vision of your life.
13:56:44 And your business and how you interact with the world around you and your clients.
13:56:50 What was the one decision or experience that changed the trajectory of your life? Was it randomly walking into that book publisher or was it something else entirely?
13:56:58 Oh my God. Okay. So listen, I need to ask some clarifying questions to make sure like I’m answering you.
13:57:05 Properly. Are we specifically talking about like Rebel? Are we specifically talking about the
13:57:12 We’re talking about you. We’re talking about you, Marty. So something in your life, one decision, one experience that changed the trajectory. Maybe it was becoming a mama. Maybe it was walking into that office. Maybe it was Learning about this part of you when you were 16 years old, I don’t know. Maybe it was something
13:57:30 Two years ago that happened. Anything that you want to share that has changed the trajectory of your life?
13:57:34 Okay, this is all right. All right. Listen, I am going to tell you that there are so many high impact moments that have totally changed the trajectory of my life. So many. You’re talking about these and I’m like, yeah, this time, yeah, this time, yeah, this time, yeah, this time.
13:57:55 I just feel like I have to talk one of the probably the most recent ones, which I’ve never really spoken about this. I’ve never spoken about this publicly.
13:58:03 Right. I separated from my husband a year ago, January a year ago, was You know, I’m like, I’m done. I’m done. And after 22 years of being with the same person.
13:58:19 And listen, I’ve never been alone, okay? I’ve never been alone. I was a mother at 18 years old. So for the very first time in my entire life.
13:58:27 I’m alone. So man, it’s a lot. Untangling your life from someone After so long.
13:58:37 Okay, but that’s, I mean, that’s not the decision that I was talking about.
13:58:41 Shortly after that, so like six months after we separated, I joined some dating apps, right?
13:58:48 There are probably a whole lot of different reasons why I decided to join some dating apps. I’m lonely. I’m bored. Let’s name all of them, right?
13:58:55 So I joined. These dating apps And I know.
13:59:01 I know that there are some people who are all about dating apps, not a big deal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I know that there are people who absolutely hate dating apps.
13:59:10 And I know some people who are absolutely like, you shouldn’t be doing that, whatever, I don’t care.
13:59:16 The single most high impact decision that I have made in the last year was joining dating apps because I have learned so much about myself things that I like, things that I didn’t like.
13:59:29 Yeah.
13:59:31 Things that are important in a partner, the way that people communicate like You know, when you when you talk to so many men at one time, and listen, I know that sounds terrible, right? But like so many men.
13:59:47 You even texting, even through text conversations, like you can find out really quickly the ones that you know, is easy conversation is easy conversation And the one that you want to continue versus like, wow, it’s really actually painful to talk to you. And I’m done. Thank you so very much. Right.
14:00:03 Yes, that was it. That was it. I think everybody should online date at some point in their lives, 100%.
14:00:11 It has been so fun.
14:00:25 Yes. Yes.
14:00:09 That’s so fun. I have a friend actually she is brilliant and she often relates dating to… business, personal brand, like, because you’re presenting the best parts of yourself, right? But also you’re presenting the most vulnerable parts of you. You’re presenting what you bring to the table. There is so much that goes into
14:00:31 Not just what you put in your dating profile, but simply how you want to be seen, how you want to be known, what you want to connect on. And yeah, so there are so many parallels between these worlds.
14:00:42 So many. And I mean, and honestly, also like direct communication, like I’m a direct communicator And I have found in the dating world people don’t communicate their wants, needs, and desires.
14:00:59 Hmm.
14:01:02 And I’m like, I mean, okay, so I think about that and I’m like, they are not comfortable communicating that or, or.
14:01:21 Yeah.
14:01:10 They’re communicating something, but that’s not actually what they’re looking for. I don’t know. I just feel like it has just been a lesson in direct communication and asking for what you want And not settling. I mean, because there’s a lot of fish in the sea. People say that, right? There is a ton of people out there, right? Like.
14:01:29 Thank you next. Thank you next, right?
14:01:29 Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, the same is so true with clients, right? Like you said, if you don’t see my vision, if I don’t see yours.
14:01:51 Yeah.
14:01:39 I’m not your perfect fit. That’s fine, right? Yeah, I think there is so much to be said for putting a stake in the ground for what you believe in. That’s why I talk so much about values is because It is the perfect way to attract and repel. It is the perfect way to be your own gut check and gauge and
14:01:58 Yes.
14:02:09 Yeah.
14:01:58 It is yeah it is so important to know, like you said, what we want, what we need, and what we are willing to adapt for. It’s not that we’re stuck in the mud. It’s that we know where we’re willing to bend and what would absolutely break us.
14:02:15 Yes. Yes, 100%.
14:02:15 I think that’s so important. So I don’t know if we’re zooming out or zooming in, but I would love to know what’s your current elevator pitch? Something that you would say at a networking event or type in a Zoom chat.
14:02:31 You know, who are you? What do you do?
14:02:34 Hi, I’m Marty. I… I help primarily women write, launch, and market their books.
14:02:43 Oh, so silly.
14:02:44 At the very very at the very quickest way that I can say it. That’s what I tell people. Hi, I hope.
14:02:51 Women write, launch, and market their books.
14:02:54 Oh, that is so simple. I feel like most of us, myself included, make it so complicated and convoluted and jargony.
14:03:00 Yeah.
14:03:02 My next question, and I’m curious to know if this would be different or not.
14:03:07 Yeah.
14:03:07 Is what do you tell a stranger? When they ask, what do you do? Your dinner to party description. You’re in the checkout line at the grocery store or you were doing, you know, drop off pickup or kiddos, what do you tell a stranger? Is it the exact same thing or even
14:03:18 Yeah. Yeah, pretty much the exact same thing. Actually, I mean, because, you know, when you’re on dating apps, like you tell people, right, they’re like, hey, what do you do? And I’m like, I publish books like I actually leave it at that. I’m a book publisher.
14:03:26 Yeah.
14:03:32 Okay.
14:03:31 And I’m a podcaster where I educate people about writing, marketing, and publishing their books.
14:03:38 Okay. Yeah, I like that tie-in to the podcast too. That’s a whole other layer that, you know, not every book publisher has for sure.
14:03:41 Yeah.
14:03:46 Right.
14:03:47 So I also, you brought up communication and directness and representing ourselves I want us all to understand and demystify this idea of messaging.
14:03:59 Mm-hmm.
14:04:00 So what do you think of when you hear the word messaging. There’s no right answer. I just love hearing all the different perspectives because so many people work in different industries and everyone has their own lexicon. So yeah, messaging. What do you think of? What does it even mean?
14:04:18 Okay, so listen, I feel like I can answer this twofold, right? Like when it comes to books, I mean, because Most people have more than one book in them, right?
14:04:26 And especially when I’m working with new authors, like a lot of times they feel like they have to include everything in the book, right?
14:04:34 I know all of this stuff and I have to put everything in the book and I’m like, no, no, no, no, no. Like not everything’s going into this book. We need to save some for later.
14:04:41 Save some for later, save some for another book. Save some for your social media, whatever, right? You cannot put everything in one book.
14:04:46 Mm-hmm. Yeah.
14:04:48 So when I talk about the message of the book. What is that one thing like what’s the message? Like if I was going to read your book, Ashley, what’s the one thing that you want me to take away from your book?
14:04:57 Boom, that’s it. If nothing else, you want me to adopt this as my own.
14:05:02 So then everything that goes into that book has to support the overall message that we’re trying to communicate in the book, right? So when we talk about a book, that’s what we’re talking about.
14:05:14 I think, and I actually was just talking to One of the ladies I work with today, and we were talking about messaging and very specifically like We were talking about my messaging and I hope it’s okay to talk about this because I’m going to.
14:05:29 Please.
14:05:28 But it’s like I get really Like, listen, I’m talking to her publishing in general, like the money with publishing like the money that you’re paying to get a job done, right? And she’s like, I don’t know the industry well enough to know what is like an average price point.
14:05:49 And here’s what I told her. I said, there is no average price point. There is zero average price point.
14:05:56 Anybody can publish a book and not outlay any finances They will outlay time and effort and energy, but they’re not going to outlay financing. You can do it for free, right? Absolutely 100% for free.
14:06:10 Are you going to get a good book? The answer is no, you are not going to get a book. But if that’s not really your goal, you just want to get your book done.
14:06:16 By all means, have at it, right? I have a friend of mine who is a writer of nonfiction books. She is a ghost writer. She is amazing at what she does.
14:06:25 $25,000. Just to write the book. That’s it.
14:06:30 There’s companies that will charge you $25,000 to do everything start to finish, right?
14:06:35 So, I mean, it’s potato potato, right? How much is your book How much is the investment in your book to you? What is important to you?
14:06:46 And obviously, you get what you pay for, right? So when I’m talking to her very specifically, I’m like I feel like based on my average price point, I feel like there is a level of something that I’m missing in my messaging
14:07:03 My messaging because while I reach people, I’m not always reaching the right people.
14:07:09 So people will come to And like, listen, everybody’s got nine, nine problems. Money’s always one of them, right? Like hands down.
14:07:18 And I get it. I get it. And I am also of the opinion that if you have If you have something inside of you and you feel like you need to write a book, I feel like you need to listen to that, right? You need to write your damn book.
14:07:32 But um people can’t always afford me. I get that.
14:07:35 Which is one of the reasons that I started the podcast because like, I just want to bring the information like you need to be able to make an informed decision, right?
14:07:44 So sometimes My messaging and the way that I’m saying things and the verbiage that I’m using, I don’t think is reaching the right people because I’m still attracting a lot of people.
14:07:54 That wants and need what I have to give them, but they don’t necessarily have the funds to pay me to do that for them.
14:08:05 Yeah, do it.
14:08:03 Yeah. Okay. I have so many thoughts around this. Why? What’s your message? What’s the heart of this book? What’s the point? What’s the one takeaway?
14:08:12 I think being concise is actually most people’s problem. Most people, like when we’re in school, we think, oh my, a 500 word essay. Most people are think they’re overwhelmed by, oh, I have to write so much. And some brains are like that.
14:08:29 Mm-hmm.
14:08:36 Yes.
14:08:29 But for most of us who are multi-passionate, deeply experienced, deep thinkers, have a lot to say about a lot of things, it’s really, really hard to, again, either find that common thread, tie all the disparate thoughts together, or just pick one. Just pick one for right now, not for forever, right?
14:08:46 Right. Right.
14:08:47 So I think that is the value of having outside perspective from a consultant.
14:08:52 Yes, of course.
14:09:05 Yes.
14:08:52 From a publishing partner from some sort of some sort outside source that is able to soundboard with you, bounce ideas off with you, reflect back what you’re saying so that because most of us know like if we if we really, really, really had to choose, you know, if we had to check a box or like.
14:09:10 Fill in the blank and there was only one blank, we would choose something, right?
14:09:15 But when we’re left to our own devices, we just have all the things and we just want to stuff it all in.
14:09:16 Yes.
14:09:20 Yes.
14:09:20 So I think that being concise is an exercise of restraint and it is absolutely a practice and it is something that is so much easier with other people.
14:09:32 100%.
14:09:32 And then you get what you pay for. I feel like often what you’re actually paying for is the trust. Is the someone that you trust to walk alongside you? Is the someone who sees your vision?
14:09:59 Right.
14:09:45 Because you can pay someone just as experienced who doesn’t believe in your vision or your book or your voice, or you can pay someone who will like outsource it to the AI bots and something will get made. Or you can dump all your content into ChatGPT and And maybe it’ll produce something similar to a ghost writer uh but
14:10:08 I feel like most of the time when we are investing in real humans, real service providers, real human run agencies.
14:10:15 It is that trust factor. It is that give and take that is the most important.
14:10:23 Yes. Yes, always.
14:10:21 Piece of it because there are always cheaper alternatives. If you want to race to the bottom, go ahead. You’ll find something down there.
14:10:30 Yeah, yeah, exactly.
14:10:27 I mean, like, yo, go to fiverr. It’s fine. Even at very, you know, also I just, I really feel like I have to like I have to throw this out there. Don’t put your book into chat GBT.
14:10:40 Don’t let some AI program write your book. Now listen, do I love AI? Absolutely. Absolutely.
14:10:46 Ask it questions, let it spit out. And then, you know, like, what can you take from that and how do you make it yours and how do you use it as inspiration is what I’m saying, but also don’t upload your book
14:11:06 Yeah.
14:10:59 To any of those AI programs, because all we’re doing is feeding it with information. So now your unpublished manuscript is loaded into an AI program that is now feeding the program for other people’s for other people’s materials.
14:11:13 Yeah, I mean, that’s your intellectual property that you are And it’s just donating to the cause unknowingly.
14:11:18 Mm-hmm. Donating to the cause.
14:11:21 Yes. So yeah. And then I also really, this leads me directly to my next question.
14:11:26 Is what is your own brand’s messaging? What’s that process been like? You said.
14:11:35 Yeah.
14:11:31 There are some kinks in that hose. Like there are some issues because reaching the people, but it’s not always the right people. So what’s that process been like for you as you define and evolve your own brand messaging.
14:11:44 Oh, okay. Well, that’s actually a really good question that I’m probably not going to be able to answer very well.
14:11:48 No worries.
14:11:50 So, but I can start out by saying this. I feel like before… All right. And you can like, listen, this is your cup of tea so feel free to push back if I’m like.
14:12:02 If I’m not understanding it properly, but listen, I feel like before you can like have accurate messaging. And I think that’s probably always like you always need to be open to pivoting like what your message is, right? I mean, like I have certainly grown
14:12:17 So much in the 16 years that I’ve been doing this. And even in the five years that I’ve had Rebel, I’ve grown so much and I’ve evolved that, listen, I just recently within the last couple of months.
14:12:27 Realize the type of person that I want to work with right like so I wanted to work with women and there’s a whole reason why I want to work with women. And my messaging is towards women. Like you think I’m only talking and only work with women. I absolutely work with men too.
14:12:39 But um It’s just been within the last couple of months that I’ve really identified the type of person that I want to work with.
14:12:46 So that type of person is this it’s it’s the doers, the movers and the shakers, right? Like the women who are doing all of the things But they don’t look at me as work for hire. I have had people
14:12:59 Who look at me and treat me like I am an employee of theirs.
14:13:05 Hmm.
14:13:05 Nothing drives me bonkers more than someone who is looking at me like work for hire. Now, am I work for hire? Yeah, absolutely. Like you pay me to complete a service for you.
14:13:16 But the people that I love working with are the women and men who like understand and value what I’m bringing to the table. And we’re not just talking about their book. Yes, I’m always going to do books, but we’re also talking about their business goals.
14:13:30 And how does the book support that business goals? Where is that book in that funnel?
14:13:35 Of, you know, what it is that they’re really trying to sell right like the the book is a tool. The book is a tool to use towards, you know, for something larger. So I’ve only recently identified the type of person that I want to attract.
14:13:53 Which has led me to really start processing the types of words that I’m using when I’m communicating with people.
14:14:02 And how I’m communicating that. And I can’t say that I really have that answer yet, other than it’s just going to be trial and error.
14:14:12 Mm-hmm.
14:14:18 Mm-hmm. Yeah.
14:14:09 Yeah, it’s all a process because, I mean, like you said, it’s changed so much in the last 16 years. And then the last six years and then the last few months because We get to know ourselves better. We get to know our people better. The world around us does change, right? So even if we and the people we interact with weren’t changing.
14:14:25 Yeah.
14:14:27 The way we interact with the world always is changing. No.
14:14:31 Absolutely. The world changes. We have to change how we interact with those around us.
14:14:34 Exactly. So where were you at before you landed on your current messaging and where are you headed now because of your current messaging? Either that very, very nuanced audience tweak or any of the other elements where before and where you’re headed now.
14:14:52 Actually, okay, so actually one of the things that I’ve recognized Listen, I have my podcast. I drop a lot of information in the podcast, right? Like if you want to publish a book.
14:15:01 You need to hit up my podcast because like, I don’t gatekeep information. It’s all there. You’ll know all of the things, right? And if I haven’t covered something, message me. I’ll cover it in a future episode, right?
14:15:13 And I love communicating the information in that aspect. What I found was I would tell just book a call with me, just book a call with me, just book a call with me. You’re going to leave with an action step, right? And they do. People leave knowing
14:15:28 What to do and where to go to get it done, whether it’s working with me or not, which is fine. Like it’s fine. I am not for everyone. I understand that.
14:15:37 I could not, even if I thought I was, there is zero, zero possibility for me to be able to publish the 1.5 million books that are being published every single freaking year.
14:15:49 Right.
14:15:49 So I am not for everyone. I understand that I tell people you need to talk to multiple publishers. You’re going to get something new from all of us and you’re going to find the person that you click with most, right? Like that’s just a reality.
14:16:00 But what I have found is I don’t want to say waste, but for lack of a better word, I have wasted so much time with people telling them what to do and how to do it And they never… had a desire to work with me to begin with.
14:16:18 Or they can’t work with me. So I’m like free information, free information, free information, which I’m happy to record on a podcast and, you know, like.
14:16:25 Communicate. But when I’m doing a ton of one-on-ones and doing clarity calls with people So that’s one of the pieces of messaging like it’s just a value thing for me, right? Like what is my time worth? And I love communicating the information. I don’t so much love communicating it an hour at a time.
14:16:42 With all of the people that’s never going to work with me.
14:16:43 Yeah. Yeah. So you’ve talked a lot about your perfect fit people, which is such an essential part of your messaging. Your messaging is obviously the intention that you bring, but then it’s the perception that they bring, right? Like there’s always someone on the other side. Otherwise, you’re just messaging into
14:16:58 Right.
14:17:02 The void and then there’s no point, right? So you’ve talked a lot about these perfect fit people. How do you know you’re with your perfect fit people? What are the clues?
14:17:11 And how do you figure out the words that actually connect with those people?
14:17:15 Oh, actually… Hmm, that’s very good. That’s a very great question. And let me tell you.
14:17:26 Sure, we always are, right?
14:17:23 I think, and I’m listen, I’m still like fumbling through this right now, but I… Yes, of course. So I think one of the biggest telltale red flags for me are people who are trying to nickel and dime my price.
14:17:41 They’re very budget conscious. And I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. People should be aware. But there is a difference between someone coming to me and saying.
14:17:55 This is my budget. And I know right up front where we’re at.
14:18:01 And then I can like, all right, so this is what you need.
14:18:05 And this is your budget. Like, so how can I give you how can i maximum benefit within what you are telling me that you have, right? Because I can change the scope of what I do.
14:18:20 Yeah.
14:18:20 I can tell you how to do the pieces. I can point you in directions so you can take care of some of the pieces on your own.
14:18:26 Okay.
14:18:27 I mean, I can work with budgets. I can work with budgets, but I need you to be upfront with me and not me come back to you and then you try to nickel and dime every single that’s a big red flag, right? So I’ve noticed those people are not good.
14:18:36 Yeah.
14:18:42 I’ve noticed people who Oh, God, this is bad. I had someone flat out ask me one time, gave my proposal, how much money from that are you making?
14:18:51 Oh, wow.
14:18:50 And I’m like, wow. Wow. Yeah. Someone absolutely. I’m like, wow, that was highly inappropriate, whatever.
14:19:01 And I think some of the other things that I need to do is just And I haven’t put this into application yet. It’s just something that I’ve just been aware of here recently is that I just need to learn to start pointing people
14:19:13 In the direction of the podcast to get information to keeping my calls at 20 minutes and not necessarily communicating that they’re going to get an action plan.
14:19:23 But after that 20 minute call, I just actually had a conversation with someone about we say, okay, great. I can give you an action plan and I can help you structure and strategize this. You want to book a call with me. This is how much it’s going to be. And then we’re going to get to
14:19:37 Yeah, yeah. Definitely. I have 30 minute alignment calls, which are free. This is how we can work together. Let me hear your vision. Let’s just get to know each other. Let’s feel that energy.
14:19:54 Yes. Yes.
14:19:50 And they almost always run long because I just am so curious about what the person has to say. I have all these ideas that I can share with them. Sometimes we like accidentally just verge into that consulting realm right away, even before they book a consulting call.
14:20:02 Yes. Yes.
14:20:04 So yeah, I think the urge to go over that allotted time because we’re just so excited and because we have so much to share and because they might be a perfect fit person.
14:20:14 But sometimes we just jump a little bit too eagerly into that.
14:20:23 Mm-hmm.
14:20:30 Yeah.
14:20:19 Yes, me too. And I’m like, I’m a helper by nature you know like I want to help you. I want to see your book come out. I want you to be successful. I don’t want you to put out a shit book, right? Like at the end of the day, I mean, like I cringe when I see someone who has really, really great content and it’s a book that I’m like, I’m actually interested in.
14:20:43 Yeah. Yeah.
14:20:37 But their synopsis on Amazon has typos. I mean You can’t spell words correctly and you’ve got like a like a one paragraph run on sentence. I’m like, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t.
14:20:52 I feel you. So how do you integrate your values specifically into your messaging, into your marketing? How do those show up?
14:21:04 So, all right, if I had to think about like my, my pillars, like those things that are important to me that I stand on.
14:21:11 One, I can tell you that when I really sat down and laid this out and I laid this out with my coach that I had at the time.
14:21:17 What I recognized is that my value system outside of me.
14:21:24 In my business is the exact same value system is me. And I’m like, I was really shocked by that. Like, because I think for so many years I separated the person from the business and you know, my coach was really the one who’s like, no, like.
14:21:39 You cannot separate. You cannot compartmentalize your life and your business because it is all one in the same, right? Like you are your business.
14:21:46 Yeah.
14:21:45 Even though I’ve just recently started talking to my business as a person, I’m like, okay, Rebel Queen, what are we doing today? Right. However, when I think about that, I feel like empowerment is really huge for me.
14:22:01 Encouraging is being really huge. Constant learning and growth is really huge.
14:22:08 Okay, oh, this is a good one too. And I forget how I had written this down. I should actually know these a whole lot better.
14:22:14 All right, but I want to push boundaries, right? I want to push the boundaries. I think it’s so important to like be rebellious.
14:22:22 And I had an author who I’ve done several children’s books with him. He’s absolutely amazing. And he came to me with a book And we read this book and all of us were like.
14:22:34 Blink, blink, blink, blink, like mouth hanging open like What is this?
14:22:40 Because it was so good or so off the wall.
14:22:42 It was so off the wall. I’m like, um. You’re writing a children’s book And I think that we need to like make the content lighter. Like it was very heavy, very deep content, right?
14:22:57 That was very borderline, like, should we even do this book And we really process through this and we had to go back to our value system, like to be rebellious, to push boundaries. So we communicated, we absolutely communicated here is our thoughts and this is what we are going to like
14:23:13 Encourage you to do. And he pushed back on us and he said, no, I understand. I appreciate that you said this to me. But I did this for a reason. And at the end of the day, whether we agreed with his material or not.
14:23:26 It’s part of our value system to like push boundaries and be rebellious And that’s exactly what he was doing. And we had to support that.
14:23:34 Oh, that is such a beautiful example. I was going to ask, what are some values aligned decisions you’ve made beyond your copy content conversations?
14:23:43 But that’s a perfect example of that. Is, yeah, yeah, just what a wonderful example of that.
14:23:45 Yeah.
14:23:51 Yeah.
14:23:51 Um so As we sort of wrap up the talk around values before we dive into publishing more specifically.
14:23:57 Mm-hmm.
14:24:00 What would you love to feel more confident about in your messaging or when you feel tongue tied talking about your vision or your work, is there anything you do to feel more confident in it?
14:24:17 I have to talk it through with someone. So if I feel like I’m coming into a space where I feel like I’m lacking some clarity. Like, okay, so here’s a perfect example. Like you and I have worked on like my second podcast that I’m coming out.
14:24:33 And at the time that you and I were like chitty chatting and like had it all down, I had a very, very, very clear vision of what I’m doing, who I’m reaching and how I’m doing it, right?
14:24:45 And then that was in December when we talked. So then come January and, you know, you and I briefly started talking about You and I briefly started talking about like, hey, how things were going prior to hitting record And, you know, I told you like, man, your girl’s been on the struggle bus. You know, there’s just been a whole lot of like big life stuff happening.
14:25:07 All at the same time. And it’s been a really hard season for me. And I really feel like I’ve just had to really stay hyper focused on that which is right in front of me and not try to add something to my plate that does not require my attention
14:25:23 At this moment. But one of those things was like I lost the clear vision.
14:25:30 For my second podcast now Do I still know who I’m talking to? Yes. Do I still know what I really want? Yes.
14:25:38 And I think that the clarity that I need to settle in and feel confident about again is the structure of how I’m going to do that.
14:25:49 And am I personally, with everything that’s going on inside of me still in alignment okay so two things. When I have this way, like, A, I just need to talk it out with somebody, right?
14:25:59 I’m self-aware. I’m very open. So if someone brings something to me that I might not have like like really processed previously, if there’s a perspective that I need a new perspective, there’s something I need a new perspective on, I’m open to that. And I’m open to being wrong and I’m open to changing my mind because
14:26:14 We can all change our mind anytime. We have the prerogative to do so, right? But then the other thing with that.
14:26:20 Is I know as it pertains specifically to this, I’m not on a timeline with this, right?
14:26:26 I’m not on any kind of a timeline. And I just know when things are going going on in and around me.
14:26:34 Then I just need to pull back and wait until I am feeling more centered within myself.
14:26:39 To be able to clearly make a decision. And confidently make a decision.
14:26:43 Oh, that is such good self-awareness. I feel like self-awareness is this kind of soft skill, which I put in air quotes because I hate that term. I feel like the soft skills are the only important skills that any of us have, but alas.
14:26:52 Yes.
14:26:58 Yes.
14:26:57 That’s like a whole podcast episode. But self-awareness is one of those top soft skills that get us so far in business, in life.
14:27:09 We are all better off the more self-aware we are. And not self-conscious, not self-centered, but self-aware.
14:27:17 Yes.
14:27:17 And like what you just said was just dripping with so much self-awareness and wisdom.
14:27:23 That sort of like, it’s not know forever it’s a not now. I need to let it simmer. I need to focus my energy. I know I personally struggle with that. I just want to do all the things all at once, please.
14:27:29 Yes.
14:27:33 I just want to make it happen and you know. We just can’t do it all, at least not all right now.
14:27:35 Yes. Which is why I have probably like 10 different projects at some point in the process that I’m just like.
14:27:46 Okay. It’s totally fine. Yes.
14:27:45 Yeah. But that’s fine too, right? They will all get done on their own timeline. This is literally a podcast about progress.
14:27:53 Or if it doesn’t get done, it doesn’t get done. I mean… Yes. Yes.
14:27:54 So. Yeah. And you still learn about yourself or other people or you do pick up and you quote unquote hard skill or whatever it is along the way.
14:28:04 Yes. Never for naught.
14:28:04 So it’s never for naught. Okay, and so now I have, I don’t know if this name will stick, but I have a new little segment called Ask an Expert in Progress.
14:28:17 So I want to know very specifically about publishing stuff for especially all of the listeners. I have a book in me. I know you believe that everyone has a book in them.
14:28:23 Yes. Yes.
14:28:27 So what’s something you wish you had known about publishing before you got started?
14:28:36 Great question. I don’t know if I can actually answer this one. And here’s why I do. I have maybe. Okay, so here’s the thing. So publishing.
14:28:59 Yay.
14:28:48 I didn’t seek out a job in publishing. So before I started publishing, I wasn’t thinking about publishing. And then when I Oh, okay. I actually can answer this one. Okay. Because I don’t think it really… I don’t think it matters that I didn’t actually seek out a job in publishing because once I get started, man, there is so much behind the scenes shit that people are unaware of that actually goes on behind the scenes. Like, okay, here’s one that really gets my goat. Okay.
14:29:14 Self-publishing. I am a self-publishing services provider. Okay. There’s a lot of different reasons that I have chosen that as a model for publishing. With that being said, I am involved in groups and forums for self publishers like so people like just your random Joe Blow who decided he’s going to do a book and self-publish and do it.
14:29:35 Man, these people are some serious freaking diehards that if you call yourself a publisher, they better be paying you for your materials.
14:29:46 So there is this like And it is an old school model like it is like It’s old school. Oh, you need to get paid for your book. Well, let’s talk about how you get paid for your freaking book. It’s not free money.
14:30:00 People aren’t paying you for your book. Like they’re fronting you. They’re giving you a loan. They’re fronting you money to get your book done.
14:30:07 For whatever reason, you’re paying it back in the sales of your book. And if you don’t ever sell enough books to actually pay that back, guess what?
14:30:14 You’re not going to get another book deal with them. And furthermore, it’s highly unlikely that you’re going to get a book deal with somebody else because you’re probably going to want to see the numbers on your first book, right?
14:30:25 So the most important thing anybody, can I just keep going? You can stop me if you want, because now I’m like, oh, and this and this.
14:30:29 Please. Nope. Keep on going.
14:30:32 The most important thing that any author can do, the most important thing. Number one, you have to build a platform. You have to, you have to, you have to.
14:30:41 If your social media feed is a bunch of memes and family stuff.
14:30:48 And then one day you decide to write a book about horticulture.
14:30:57 I mean, there better be something on your Facebook about horticulture.
14:31:01 Before you come out with a book, so many people write this book and it’s not that they don’t know anything about it, but they’ve just never built a platform around that, which they already know.
14:31:10 If you’re not doing it, no one’s going to buy your book. No one is going to buy your book.
14:31:14 If they have no friends and family might buy your book. Your haters might buy your book because they just want to know. They want to like.
14:31:21 That’s funny.
14:31:21 Low key, see what you got going on. Yes, build your platform. Advances aren’t free freaking money.
14:31:28 People have to be paid to get your book done. There are so many people involved in a book.
14:31:32 You’ve got your content development editor, you’ve got your line editor, your cover designer, your freaking layout people. All of these are different people. Your person who’s converting it into ebook. All of those people need to get paid.
14:31:47 You know, someone’s paying them.
14:31:50 Yeah. So I think the platform tip is one is such an essential tip that I’ve also heard in the past. I know a lot of people are aspirational authors and they’re like, well, I gotta have X number of people on my mailing list or X number of followers or that sort of thing.
14:32:07 I know you said that is your top, top tip. Do you have any other tactical tips to share about publishing that will especially save multi-passionate deep thinkers time or money or energy.
14:32:22 Something they can do. Yeah.
14:32:24 Something that they can do? Okay. Actually.
14:32:32 Sure.
14:32:29 I feel like I want to answer that completely differently. All right. Here’s what I’m going to do. So I just really feel like one of the one of the I love working with brand new authors.
14:32:41 Love working with brand new authors so much. I really feel Here’s one of the biggest things that I am getting from brand new authors. It’s fear. It’s actually fear. And this just doesn’t even have to do with writing a book. It could be starting a podcast. It could be
14:32:59 Starting the business. It could be adding like another line to your business. I don’t know. But I feel like it’s fear. People are so afraid to be real raw and relevant about who they are And they want to appeal to everyone.
14:33:21 That they don’t say the things that need to be said. And I’m saying this for your content, for building your platform, for writing your book. What is your opinion, like where do you stand on an issue And how can you be holy and authentically bold
14:33:42 In that issue and communicate your thoughts. So the best most successful people are the ones who can polarize their audience, right?
14:33:52 So you have your lovers, your fangirls, the people who are going to eat up everything that you throw out there on front street And then you’re going to have your haters who are going to like argue with you with every single sentence
14:34:05 That you’re putting out there, but you want that because you want that because One, your haters who are commenting and arguing with you on your stuff are like pushing you up in the algorithm first of all The ones who love you, who are agreeing with you, who you’re now communicating with and engaging with.
14:34:23 Those are going to be the people who are your bread and butter.
14:34:43 Yes, yes.
14:34:28 Yeah, that is so aligned with so my entire approach to personal brand to content to building a business that whether or not you’re the face of your business, you know, I know a lot of authors are they sort of hide behind their writing, right? They’re like afraid to even put their photo on the book or put their face in their little Instagram profile or something like that.
14:34:57 Yes.
14:34:51 And it’s so deeply personal and yet they want to shy away from the spotlight and I am not a proponent necessarily for being the loudest person in the room for having necessarily the most polarizing opinions.
14:35:08 Yes.
14:35:05 But you do need to have an opinion. You do need to put a stake in the ground. You can do it gently. You can do it with whatever vibe and voice suits you.
14:35:14 Tone, whatever. Yeah.
14:35:16 Exactly. Not everyone will love or understand or appreciate what you think and feel and do. Not everyone, like it would be impossible and you would be bending over backwards and still failing.
14:35:30 Yes.
14:35:29 And it wouldn’t feel good to you and it wouldn’t feel good to those perfect fit people who need and want exactly the way you can articulate how you’re thinking and feeling and doing.
14:35:51 Exactly.
14:35:40 And yes, and you need those people to like absolutely just like hang on to every word that you say, because that’s how you make money that’s how you write a book that these people want to read you know that they’re now going to tell their friends about. If you have someone who’s like lukewarm, they could care less if like they actually see you pop up on their social medias or what you have to say or like, those people are not going to buy your book and then tell others about your book.
14:36:03 Exactly. And, you know. Yes, there’s just so much more to be said around that.
14:36:09 Yes.
14:36:10 I would love to know, as we wrap up our conversation, what is a message that matters to you about publishing, about business, about being a human on this earth? What’s a message that matters to you?
14:36:23 Hmm.
14:36:20 It’s not about you. Like literally, I think one of the biggest lessons that I have learned in the last couple of years.
14:36:32 They’re… Okay, maybe I should caveat that.
14:36:36 One of the biggest lessons that I’ve learned that Anything that goes on in me, around me has everything to do with me and how I’m viewing it.
14:36:49 Anybody else’s stuff that is going on around me is not about me. I do not take personal. I’m not easily offended. I don’t take personal offense to people. I know that whatever it is is going on, something’s going on inside of them.
14:37:03 It has nothing to do with me. I actually just had this conversation with my daughter the other day and I’m like.
14:37:08 My oldest daughter, I’m like, Katie, it’s not about you. Katie, this is not about you. And she’s like, but how do I not take this personally? I’m like, you keep reminding yourself like this is not about me.
14:37:16 I can only control that which goes on inside of me and my thoughts, my feelings.
14:37:22 And whatever anybody else does, like you have to realize like like we’re autonomous, right? Like they are autonomous and whatever it is that’s going on in them, it’s not about You.
14:37:41 Mm-hmm.
14:37:33 Yeah, that can be so hard. Highly sensitive people and empaths and the helpers of the world or people who are so desperate to make sales. Please, please, please buy this thing. I know it can help you.
14:37:50 Yeah.
14:37:46 That can be such a hard lesson to internalize, but I think it is such a rapport and important reminder that we can give to ourselves. We can slap that on our desktop or a little sticky note or whatever works for our brains of
14:37:58 Yeah.
14:38:00 Other people’s decisions and actions and words Yeah, it’s not necessarily a reflection of your worth or your value or
14:38:07 Yes, that’s actually a better way to put that. Yeah, I was just sitting here. I’m like, yeah, I could have probably worded that better. But yeah, that’s exactly right.
14:38:14 Yeah, yeah, that’s so hard to remember, but also so, so important.
14:38:18 Mm-hmm.
14:38:19 All right. So if everyone is loving everything you’re laying down, how can they stay connected with you? What’s the best way?
14:38:26 Okay, so my podcast, The Rebel Maker, you know, if you want Yeah, all of the tea about writing, publishing and marketing.
14:38:30 It’ll be linked for sure in the show notes.
14:38:36 So I don’t actually update my Rebel social medias, but like my personal social medias, Facebook, smarty bowling styler Bowling, like the game, S-T-A-T-L-E-R.
14:38:45 And then, you know, Marty Stottler on instagram Yeah, just go to the website, rebelqueen.co.
14:38:52 Perfect. All right. Wonderful. Marty, thank you so, so much. And have a great day.