Rewriting the Rules with Heather Vickery | Episode 96

This is an unedited transcript and the timestamps don’t match exactly with the final audio. Thanks for your understanding!

Hello hello and welcome back to the Purpose & Progress Podcast. I’m so excited to talk with today’s guest Heather Vickery, Transformation Coach and Community Builder of Vickery and Co.

We met via Yellow Co’s Guidance Groups. I’ll link my interview with Yellow Co Founder Joanna (#29) in the show notes, as well as my solo episode (#72) about how that peer mentorship group directly inspired my Peer Pods offer.

Heather brings all the big, bold energy to our conversation, while actually being a very grounding presence, at least for me. We talk about how she and her clients are not aspiring to be humble. She’s proudly outspoken about who she is and what she believes, which is refreshing in a world that makes us so afraid to be polarizing.

In our conversation, we talk about joy and bravery—not to be confused with fearlessness. We talk about ways we can get to know ourselves better so that we can actually feel like we’re thriving, not just attaining surface-level success. And we touch on the many many modalities she’s trained on and incorporates into her practice, including human design, subconscious reprogramming, positive psychology, and more.

She’s giving away a custom subliminal audio track for the first five people who email her from the podcast, so I have her email address linked in the shownotes. And I’m going on her retreat to Costa Rica in January 2026—I booked it like 2 years out, I’m so nervous as a mom of 2 littles and SO excited as a multi-faceted woman and business owner. Anyway, if spending a week to in Costa Rica to get in touch with yourselves and potentially connect with others sounds like exactly what you need, she said you can use the code purpose for $100 the retreat. How cool would it be to hang out in real life in a completely out-of-the-ordinary setting?

Anyway, before we dive into the interview, I want to shoutout the next About You Audit I’m hosting on August 25. It’s a way to get free access to brain and fresh perspective on whatever you’re using to introduce yourself—LinkedIn profile, CV, About Page, IG bio, whatever you want. I host one quarterly-ish and it’s always a crowdpleaser. Even if you can’t attend live, you can send your link for review ahead of time and all my real-time edits and suggestions can likely be applied to your copy too.

And if you love this episode, please do leave a glowing review, subscribe, and share a screenshot on social so that more multi-passionate deep thinkers know about the podcast!

Be sure to check out all the resources we discuss in the show notes or at ashleesang.com/episode96.

And come back in 2 weeks because I’ll be coming at you with another solo episode.

Now, let’s dive into the interview with Heather.

@11:28 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Heather, I’m so, so, so excited for this conversation. I would love to jump in first and foremost with what’s your current elevator pitch?

Something you’d say at a networking event or in a Zoom? Chat. What do you do? Who’s it for?

@12:02 – Heather Vickery

Is there anybody else who’s been in business like always, like my entire adult life, that hates that question? I should be really good at this by now.

So I’m a transformation coach, and what I do is help heart-centered, conscious leaders learn to lead from embodied joy.

Because when we show up joyful, it is our set point rather than some sort of end goal. We show up differently.

We engage differently. We inspire differently. And we can actually make the change that we wish to see in the world.

We can really serve our purpose, especially as women. We are taught that we have to do all the things right before we get to be joyful or happy or playful or have pleasure.

@12:47 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

And it’s just not true.

@12:48 – Heather Vickery

And we know it. We know it’s not true.

@12:51 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Okay. First of all, thank you for giving me your elevator pitch, even though you hate the question. How I do?

@12:57 – Heather Vickery

I love the fact that you included because.

@13:00 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Because. So in a framework I give, it’s the so that. The so that, the because, the why matters. Okay, so choice.

Okay, surface level, who cares? But you just explained why it’s so, so matter.

@13:14 – Heather Vickery

Okay, transformation codes, what does that even mean?

@13:15 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Well, daughter said it, right? So I, yeah, I feel like that was such a beautiful, fluid example of how it can sound like a real conversation.

But you also hit a lot of really important points of, okay, here’s who I am, what I do, who it’s for, why it matters, all the things.

And then also, I feel like joy has been this recurring theme in my life. I have a friend the other day who said something like, so we’re recording in May.

And it was the top of May. And she said, Hey, happy May. What are you looking forward to this month?

@13:52 – Heather Vickery

Joy wise.

@13:53 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

And I thought that was such an important caveat. Because my, my. Initial is all the work things that I’m looking forward to creating, doing, and work does bring me joy.

I love what I do, but also that reminder of, oh, we are multifaceted. We can have joy. And as you said, pleasure in so many ways.

I think that’s a real learning that a lot of modern women, actually all women historically, probably, are needing to learn.

@14:26 – Heather Vickery

Yeah, absolutely. You’re welcome. Thanks for the positive feedback. You know, I have been talking about joy for a long time, and I also combine joy with bravery, which is not being fearless.

We can be really clear about that, but it’s embracing your fear and being brave. And I believe that joy is a revolution, that choosing joy is a brave act in and of itself.

But it is fascinating because it has taken off since last summer in a really big way. Now people are talking about it, so we give a lot of credit.

Kamala Harris, right? She was the platform of hope and joy, and people were talking about the joy, and it felt radical, and it felt alive.

So it’s kind of fun to see it get a life, because I always feel like I’m about a couple of years before anything becomes mainstream, and I’m talking about it, and people are like, oh, that’s cute, Heather.

Like, thanks. And I’m like, no, this is the thing. And then all of a sudden, it’s like human design, right?

And all of a sudden, it’s the thing everybody is talking about, subconsciously programming, all of that. So I’m somehow, luckily, I guess a little ahead of the curve, but it does feel like you’re talking to the void for a long time until it clicks in a bigger way societally.

@15:43 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Yeah. But then I guess there’s also that point of your perfect fit people are open to it, receptive to it, or they already get it.

@15:53 – Heather Vickery

Yes.

@15:53 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

doesn’t really matter what the sort of collective consciousness is, as long as you’re finding your perfect fit people.

@15:59 – Heather Vickery

Easier said than done. For sure. Correct.

@16:01 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

But if you can find people who are like, yes, for more joy. Yes, for understanding ourselves and what makes us tick.

@16:09 – Heather Vickery

Then, you know, all the hard stuff is there. It’s taken care of for you. Yeah, I agree.

@16:16 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

So, okay. If you hate the elevator pitch, what do you tell a stranger? No, I tell them what I told you.

Really? You give the whole big shebang of like, yeah.

@16:28 – Heather Vickery

Yeah. I mean, I might tighten it a little, but I do because it’s fast. First of people look at me like, that’s a job.

@16:36 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Yeah.

@16:37 – Heather Vickery

Yeah, it is. It’s a job. And my daughter’s like, nobody knows. Nobody understands what you’re talking about. I’m like, the right people understand what I’m talking about.

But I, it’s, you know, I tend to work with people, not only women, but almost exclusively women, but I don’t, I’m happy to help men.

They just don’t often open themselves up to doing this kind of work, who are. On paper, successful.

@17:03 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

But they do not feel like they’re thriving.

@17:06 – Heather Vickery

Something is wrong. So I do work with leaders.

@17:10 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

And so how does this shift us as leaders in leadership?

@17:15 – Heather Vickery

And it is such kind of a mind blowing revolutionary approach to leadership. But I will tell you, this will not surprise you, but it might surprise your listeners because I’m right where science and spirituality meet.

You know, there’s a lot of woo. The energies are shifting. We are moving into a matriarchal society. It is happening.

We are watching the patriarchy with its last grasp, dying breath. That is why they are holding on so hard.

And so all of these quote unquote soft skills, because the matriarchy isn’t women in charge. It’s caring in charge.

It’s community first in charge.

@17:58 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

It’s greater good.

@18:00 – Heather Vickery

Instead of me, me, me, boss, boss, boss, there can only be so many of us at the top, kind of shut up and do what you’re told approach.

It is happening. It is happening.

@18:13 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Hmm. I love the sureness that you are speaking into the universe. I hope you are correct. And also, because you mentioned soft skills, I have yet to write about this.

There’s probably a whole podcast episode in me. But that is my biggest pet peeve when it comes to like professionalism.

@18:35 – Heather Vickery

The soft skills are the only skills that matter. They are 100%.

@18:38 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Unless you’re like an engineer, and you like technically need to know how to build this bridge or building or whatever it is, even then you need the soft skills to communicate what it is that you’re building, why, how to manage the junior engineers, all things like the soft skills are the most important, universal, human things that any of us can learn.

grow, develop. So yes, two more soft skills.

@19:04 – Heather Vickery

It’s a dumb term, but I don’t know what we replace it with. Social and emotional intelligence skills, but now there’s a war on social emotional intelligence.

@19:12 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

So, you know, whatever. Yeah, skills and being a human.

@19:17 – Heather Vickery

Yeah.

@19:18 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Yeah. Yeah. I’ll have to think about a replacement term for soft skills. Yeah.

@19:23 – Heather Vickery

They’re anything but soft, right?

@19:25 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

And they’re not easy to do either.

@19:28 – Heather Vickery

That’s, think, a really important. To do them well requires us to do a lot of reflective work, gain a lot of self-awareness and learn about ourselves so that we can be better at supporting other people in all of these ways.

And it is not an easy thing to do.

@19:46 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

No, no. And or sometimes it’s almost like, oh, I’ve always just been a really good communicator. And so you think it’s not important or you think it is soft or like the opposite is also true, which is.

Um, I find so often we undercharge because it comes easy to us or we forget to add it as a benefit to our sales page because it’s so easy for us.

Or I know in human design, it’s all about leaning into your natural tendencies, your strengths. Um, and so like really being aware of that and then leveraging that is also a skill and a practice.

Um, yeah. Yeah. Well, since, since we mentioned human design, any, any, okay. For anyone who isn’t aware, I know you said it’s becoming much more popular and well-known, but I also think there are a lot of people who still don’t know what human design is.

Um, so will you give a little overview of what is human design and how does it show up in your practice specifically?

@20:46 – Heather Vickery

Absolutely. So human design is a modern scientific self-discovery system that is based on several different ancient sciences and philosophies.

The Chinese I Ching, Kabbalah, Buddhism, quantum physics, the chakra system, and astrology. So it is, again, where science and spirituality merge.

Unlike other quote-unquote personality tests where you select the answers like the Enneagram or the disc or Myers-Briggs or any of that, this is based on your birth, date, time, and location.

So that’s part of where the astrology piece comes from. And people who aren’t into that are already tuning me out, and that’s fine, but I can tell you that it works.

@21:24 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

And Ashley can tell you that it works because I’ve read her human design. It’s so fascinating. I am, like, really not into horoscopes.

Nothing against it.

@21:34 – Heather Vickery

just doesn’t really mean.

@21:35 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

But human design, the more I learn about it, the more I’m like, oh, my gosh, this is me to a T.

@21:40 – Heather Vickery

It is. So what I love the most about it, it is all about knowing yourself and working with what you’ve got and using that to expand.

@21:50 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

There’s nothing to change or fix.

@21:52 – Heather Vickery

Now, that’s something I’ve been saying to people for a decade is that you’re exactly the way you’re supposed to be.

There’s nothing wrong with you. You’re not broken. You’re broken. You’re You’re Rules are not made for you. Redesign them.

Forget them. Like, you know, come up with something that works for you. And human design helps people do that.

It helps them understand themselves and realize what sort of, you know, sort of programming that has been put onto them societally, the patterning.

So, you know, for example, manifesting generator, are five different types in human design. Manifesting generators are designed to be multi-passionate.

These are the people that have been told their whole lives. Why are you always changing your mind? Why don’t you ever finish anything you start?

Could you please just pick something and stick to it? When I tell those people, because you’re not supposed to, they’re like, are you kidding?

Can I say that? Are you kidding me? Like, like, that’s okay. Yes, that is what you’re supposed to do.

They are supposed to try things and fill up their toolkit and learn what they need from it. And when they have what they need, they are supposed to move on to something else.

The only ones designed to do that. And it is the world does not know what to do with them.

But it’s beautiful and brilliant. And they can like come in and solve every kind of problem.

@23:10 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

I’m sorry. It’s really hard for me not to curse, Ashlee. I don’t think I have like child appropriate or whatever.

@23:17 – Heather Vickery

You do you. You do you. You know you have to check that box on YouTube. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

@23:22 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

It doesn’t live on YouTube.

@23:23 – Heather Vickery

So. OK, well, there you go then. So it’s been great because it has helped me be certainly a better person to myself, a better coach, a better parent, a better partner.

It has helped me be so much more curious and less judgmental because I can see how we are all designed so incredibly differently that when I go, oh, gosh, that’s not how I would do that.

That’s fascinating what their motivation is instead of like, well, you would just do it the way I am telling you to do it, you would be successful because that’s not how it works.

It doesn’t work that way. I love human design.

@23:58 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Yeah, that permission giving element has. It’s also been a very central theme to my personal and professional life recently because how could one-size-fits-all prescriptive solutions to anything in life, in business, possibly work?

That just doesn’t make sense. We are all different. We all bring different energies. Not even like woo energies if you don’t even want to go there, but we all have different energy levels, right?

I am a very enthusiastic person. Many of the people I work with are much calmer.

@24:30 – Heather Vickery

That is fine.

@24:32 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

And the way we view the world, the way we problem solve, the way that we like to communicate or not, it is all so idiosyncratic.

And I think that permission to ourselves and permission to others, that curiosity can go so, so far.

@24:50 – Heather Vickery

You know, I think nothing teaches us that quicker than parenting more than one child. Because when we just have, and if anyone’s listening, you don’t have kids.

Because I, I, I think. You can still get those concepts. So when we have one child and we parent them one way and it works in a certain way, we think, well, this is how you do the thing.

And then you get another one and I have four. And you go, that’s not, that’s not working. I can’t.

Oh, okay. Or this one’s left and that one doesn’t or this one ate and that one doesn’t or whatever it is.

Right. And we realize like, I can’t be the same parent to these two humans because they need different things from me.

@25:25 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

And that’s the way clients are. That’s the way coworkers are. That’s the way friends are. Right. Yeah. And I think that also makes it really hard for the parenting example is you are still the same you.

So you having to show up in a different way for a different human is hard, especially in the same context of this is my parent hat.

I feel like sometimes it’s easier for us to kind of like code switch between, oh, well, this is my, you know, coach or consultant or graphic designer, like whatever hat you wear in the business world, and then be a different side.

As a parent, as a partner, as a community member, whatever, we’re able to compartmentalize the multifaceted parts of our being in different contexts.

But to be able to navigate that in relationship with someone in the same context is really, really tricky. I mean, it’s the same as if you are a manager or team members, right?

Like, they all bring different personalities and skill sets and communication styles and understanding what they need. But also understanding what you need, you know, like it, that is why being a human is so, so complicated.

@26:36 – Heather Vickery

It is complicated. But that’s exactly what I would say to every single client is the skills that it takes to be a really good conscious leader.

And I use that term really intentionally. What does it mean to be a conscious leader? Somebody who is aware of how they show up, the impact that their choices, thoughts, actions, behaviors have on the people around them.

A good conscious leader asks more questions instead of making snap judgment. They get information and learn what they need to learn before they give guidance or instructions, and that’s what we have to do to be good parents to multiple children, even to only one child, which we don’t necessarily know when we just have one.

But those skills, those conscious leadership skills apply to everything that you’re doing in your life. And human design truly, truly helps that.

And so does my brave method. So that’s my own coaching method that is designed to help you dream design and build the life that you want to have and then actually have it and problem solve and all of that.

It works. It applies in all the situations everywhere. That’s wonderful. Yeah, I always love those business-life parallels.

@27:56 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

I mean, just how can we separate ourselves? So I would love to know, you sort of have nodded to this as a career long entrepreneur, you said, and being ahead of the curve.

I would love to know what’s your current trajectory, your vision for your life and your business?

@28:16 – Heather Vickery

Where are going?

@28:17 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Where are headed?

@28:17 – Heather Vickery

That’s a great question. So I have been an entrepreneur since I was in my early 20s. And I turned 50 last December.

So I learned very quickly out of college that while I worked well with people, I did not work well for them.

And that is a very, very true statement. And so it’s funny that you interesting that you asked that question.

I had no problem turning 50. In fact, I told my daughter, I’m so ready to embrace my crone era.

Like, let me be the wise old woman. Let’s go. Like I have, I got this in the bag, right?

But when I woke up on my 50th birthday, I thought, God, there are so many amazing things that I’m still going to do.

And then I was like, okay, sister, you better get on it. Like you’re on the back half of this, right?

But I never thought, well, it’s too late now. I never thought, gosh, if only I had X, Y, and Z, because I know that everything I’ve ever done has gotten me right here.

So as somebody who has 5,000 certifications, certified in positive psychology, certified in success coaching and leadership coaching and subconscious reprogramming and human design and the list goes on and on and on, I know that I am here to shift people out of community.

On a grander scale. So I have a community membership called the Spark Collective, which I love because that is a way to show up for the people who are too busy to do self-care the way self-care moguls tell you you’re supposed to do it.

So it’s designed 10 or 15 minutes here or there in the cracks of your day so that you can show up and care for yourself with the compound effect.

I host retreats, one of which you are going to in Costa Rica. I’m so excited. I’m so excited. 2020.

26, I cannot wait also. So again, these are all about creating space for yourself, creating time for yourself to sit with yourself, to listen to yourself, to gain self-awareness, and then be intentional about what you want next for yourself, for your life, for your business, whatever that looks like.

So, you know, the last half of my life, I would really love to, ideally, I’m going to write another book.

@30:27 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

I can feel that one coming.

@30:31 – Heather Vickery

More keynote speaking and retreats, and then just supporting select clients in certain ways, whether it’s, you know, workshops or through the membership, things like that.

So I do take one-on-one clients now, and I really love that work. And it’s shifted. This is interesting. It used to be very prescriptive.

@30:50 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

This is what I offer with my one-on-one coaching.

@30:53 – Heather Vickery

And now I call it, you know, it’s concierge coaching. I have so many tools in my box. And I said, you come in, and we talk about it, and we peel back the layers, and then I’m going to suggest this modality or this thing to support you wherever you are, because we are all so very, very different.

And it feels so much more intuitive, and I love that approach.

@31:19 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Oh, yeah. And I actually think it’s really, not for me, but for most of the people in my orbit, I think it’s really relatable, the fact that you have 601, or I think you said 5,000 certifications.

I think that so many people I know and work with are just love learning. They also really need the sort of like validation and authority boost of having an official certification rather than just going down the YouTube rabbit holes, which is more my style.

And I think it’s really beautiful now that you’re able to bring together all these modalities and make them your own, put them into your

own amalgamated or completely siloed, like however you want and need it and however your clients want and need it.

I love that they’re able to show up in whatever doses and percentages feel right in that moment. That’s such a beautiful gift to be able to choose from.

@32:16 – Heather Vickery

Yeah, thank you. So my human design shows that I am a learner. I’m what they call, I’m a 1-3 splenic projector.

Projectors are here to guide and lead. Interestingly enough, we have to be invited in to do so. We’re know-it-alls.

We’re the ones that when we’re little, we can tell everybody what to do and everybody’s annoyed with us all the time.

But we actually really do know we just need to learn right timing. But it’s so funny. The one is an investigator, like, oh my gosh, I have to know more about this right away.

And the three is a learning out loud. So I’ll give you a really random, really random recent example. I am agnostic, although we were raised.

Somewhat Christian. We never, ever went to church, you know, all of that kind of stuff. I’m obsessed with the new Pope.

@33:06 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Obsessed.

@33:07 – Heather Vickery

Well, maybe because he’s a fellow Chicagoan. Maybe, perhaps, because his, but the videos, like I never thought of the Pope as a real person with real family members who, you know, his brother was playing words with friends with him before he went into the conclave that morning.

Like, this is wild to me. Like, he flew to Rome and he was like, oh, we had dinner at his place.

The Vatican, right? Like, it’s wild. And I’m fascinated. And so I spent days deep diving, reading everything, and then I’m telling anybody who will listen to me all about it.

So I do that with my certifications, too. Whatever my passions are professionally or even personally for my own self-development and growth, eventually that’s going to be something that people in my communities need and want.

And that’s how I started with human design.

@33:58 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

That was just for me.-development. started started you.

@34:00 – Heather Vickery

I didn’t really think I was going to use it for work at all. And then it became so apparent that this is what my people needed from me.

So I go, I dive deep, and then I talk about it all the time. And the people are like, yeah, I want that thing you have.

@34:14 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Like, oh, that’s an invitation. Oh, love that. I feel like that is the essence of human design, as I understand it, is seeking out and following what feels so good.

And then it will all fall in place around you. Really, you know, follow your passion, you know, if that word resonates with you, however you want to view it.

Yeah, I love that. That very specific example. Thank you.

@34:42 – Heather Vickery

Hilarious for the Pope. Oh, it’s so random, because I’m really not religious, but whatever.

@34:49 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

So I’d love to know one decision or experience that changed the trajectory of your life. I know you probably have many.

@35:00 – Heather Vickery

Business example or can I give you any example?

@35:03 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Any. I feel like it all relates. Okay.

@35:06 – Heather Vickery

I think that it does also. The immediate answer for that is after I had been married a decade and had four children, I came out of the closet, came out to myself and then to my then husband and then to the world.

And I tried really hard to just keep things status quo because you don’t get married to get divorced.

@35:29 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

I don’t think anybody does.

@35:31 – Heather Vickery

They’re like, oh, we could just always get a divorce. It’s not a big deal. You get married because you think you’re going to stay in this.

And I have children and I was just going to make it work until one morning I realized I didn’t work.

I was disappearing into nothing. I didn’t feel any joy or passion for anything. I just, it was rote. I just, I went through the motions all the time, even, even with my children who

I adored like I felt separate. I always felt like I was on the outside and everything else was on the inside.

And one morning, it just hit me like, what would I tell the kids? If they came to me in any sort of similar situation, it didn’t have to be their .

But something that was making them feel non existent as a human. And I immediately knew that I would say baby girl, go out and be yourself.

The world is waiting for you. Like, we need you. To play big and show up. And I’m like, Oh, no.

If that is what I would tell them. And that is what I have to do for myself and for them.

And my oldest daughter rightly called me out several years ago. She’s like, you didn’t get a divorce for us.

@36:47 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

You got a divorce for yourself.

@36:50 – Heather Vickery

Because I had used that I had said I had to do it for my kids. She’s right. I did it for myself.

But also it was better for my kids. Because I could, I was not. I was not going to survive that way.

It wasn’t going to work. And when I did that, I blew it all up. I burned everything down. I closed a successful luxury event planning business and started coaching, which is when I started going on my own journey, sort of spiritual journey.

This is when I learned about the power of gratitude, got certified in positive psychology, and I started really paying attention to what was happening around me.

And everybody saw me as a coach before I did. I started to realize that multiple times a week I was getting calls, emails, texts, stopped at an event.

Hey, I want to start this. I want to try this. I want to do this. I think you can help.

Will you talk to me? Okay, sure. And then I just was like, okay, all right. Okay. Let me lean in.

Let me say yes. And it was the perfect fit. And I love the events industry because they immediately brought me into lead workshops and to speak at their conferences.

They were like, yes, Heather, this is exact. Exactly what you’re supposed to be doing. And because I understood the industry, I could bring this work in in a way that resonated.

@38:08 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

And they really held me very softly as I made this transition, which was now about 11 years ago. Wow.

Well, first of all, thank you for sharing. And second of all, I know you said, oh, life or business.

That was both. It was all of the above, right? I think it’s such a beautiful example of, you know, we are the founders.

We are the practitioners. We are the visionaries. So how could, especially something that is so close to our identity like that, be separate?

@38:38 – Heather Vickery

It couldn’t. It’s true.

@38:39 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

How we show up is how we show up. We lead human first businesses.

@38:44 – Heather Vickery

We are humans first and foremost.

@38:46 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

And then also, I think it’s a really good example. An exercise in empathy and self-compassion to ask yourself, you know, how would I advise my daughters, in your case, or?

Or my clients, or my sister, or whatever loved one or person that you hold dear in your life. How would I advise them to do this?

I think that’s a really useful exercise. And to your daughter’s point, yes, you made that choice for you. But and it’s okay to make a choice for you.

Yeah, I’m so sorry.

@39:19 – Heather Vickery

I really didn’t mean to cut you off. But it this was really only about three or four years ago.

And I want to be really clear. I am also ever evolved. I tend to be a few steps ahead of the people that I work with.

But that’s the way it works. You don’t want to work with somebody who’s 100 steps. Like, would you if you had a chance to work with Oprah, you would be like, I’m not gonna work with Oprah.

I mean, like, that’s terrifying. I mean, maybe you wouldn’t. But like, you know what I mean? Like, you want somebody who can still understand where you are in life.

And it took me until my late 40s to say, it is okay that you did this for yours.

@40:02 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Yeah, I also think that decisions can have layers like that, different timelines like that. You can know it’s right and still be justifying it in the background for a very long time.

Yeah, I don’t know. All this to say that how we show up and how we give advice and how we hold space for ourselves and others is so, so nuanced.

@40:27 – Heather Vickery

Yes, it is.

@40:28 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

So, yeah, thank you for that beautiful example. Well, this would not be an episode of the Purpose in Progress podcast if we didn’t talk about messaging, because I really love to understand and demystify how people view what it is that they do.

So what has been your process as you build a brand, especially a second time around, right? You know, you had a successful business.

That I imagine messaged itself very differently than how you now talk. Yes.

@41:04 – Heather Vickery

And it was before we had social media, which is also wild.

@41:07 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

And I know social media is such a big part of your platform, too. And I know you had a very turbulent relationship with social as well.

@41:17 – Heather Vickery

So how do you think about building a brand and messaging?

@41:21 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

What has that process been like for you, either in the recent past or sort of like over the entire trajectory of this business?

@41:28 – Heather Vickery

Yes. Well, so what you know, but the listeners don’t know, is it’s been a tumultuous relationship. I am not a marketer.

I learned recently, like in the last four or five years, that a learning disability that I had as a child has, which we cleared up.

It was in the, you know, difficulty reading space. I have learned that I can’t succinctly pull out the main idea.

I could. Talk. You put me on a phone call with somebody or in person. I could talk about what I do.

You will get it. You will love it. You will want to say yes to it. To pull out a highlight or a key takeaway, I don’t have.

I don’t have that thing, that button in my brain. A mutual friend of ours, Kate, at one point, I just talked and talked and talked and she pulled out ideas.

Then I didn’t know how to organize them. That’s a really vulnerable thing to admit. I’m a 50-year-old entrepreneur. I charge a very fair amount for the work that I do.

It is not free and it is not cheap. It is worth it. For me to say, I can’t do all those things.

I don’t have those skills. I utilize my community and my people to help me. I hire people to help me.

Just because you can do it all, you shouldn’t. You shouldn’t do it all. I can’t actually do it all.

I admit that. From a marketing standpoint, it’s fascinating. So I do have an uncomfortable relationship with social media. I left all of the meta platforms in January, which felt terrifying because you’re like, can you have a legitimate business that doesn’t have an Instagram presence?

And I was like, yep, we’re about to find out because I’m not going to do it. But I wasn’t making money off of Instagram anyway.

Like a lot of people do make money off of it, but I wasn’t.

@43:29 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

I think it was validating, but it was taking up so much time and so much energy.

@43:33 – Heather Vickery

And I feel so much freer since I don’t have that on me. I’ve picked up a LinkedIn presence. I’ve picked up, I started a sub stack.

I am on Blue Sky, but that’s mostly just political chatter back and forth. I’m not really doing work there.

So it is building, rebuilding community. I’m now hosting a local in-person networking breakfast the second Friday of every month.

And growing in-person community there, I am about to, and this is terrifying because I think it’s going to be a lot of work, start a little bit of a local tour finding wellness practitioners and offering to do a free hypnotherapy workshop or subconscious programming workshop or human design workshop for their people because I believe that those people will be my people.

They could be interested in coming to one of my retreats or doing some sort of private work with me if they’re already investing in themselves.

So I’m not sure I’m actually answering your question, but branding is hard, but it’s me. I am my brand.

@44:39 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

I’m outspoken.

@44:40 – Heather Vickery

I’m sassy. I’m spiritual, but I’m still super type A and I’m queer and I’m very political.

@44:49 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

You know, these are, these are me.

@44:51 – Heather Vickery

And, um, if that makes you feel safe, we can change things together.

@44:59 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

And if it doesn’t, then. You’re not the coach for them?

@45:01 – Heather Vickery

I’m not for them. That’s okay.

@45:02 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Yeah. Which I think is an important, obvious thing to say, but also an important thing because it’s so easy to forget.

Or it’s so easy to get wrapped up on all the people that you’re repelling instead of just doubling down on all the people that you could be welcoming in and attracting.

And, yeah, I really love those examples of building community elsewhere because I think that’s so powerful. And there are so many other opportunities outside of just the run-of-the-mill social platforms that we spend so much time on and don’t make money.

@45:38 – Heather Vickery

If you’re making money, you go make that money.

@45:40 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

If you’re not, why don’t you reevaluate? Like there’s so much pressure to show up in certain spaces, in certain ways, for really no ROI for many, many of us.

@45:53 – Heather Vickery

Absolutely. And it was so freeing. I don’t miss – the only thing I miss is seeing my kids post and then sometimes my –

Like I would see you or I would see other people.

@46:02 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

But it’s made, we have to be more intentional about connecting. And that’s not a bad thing. No, it’s not.

More intentionality is never a bad thing by any stretch. Yeah, thank you. And thank you also for sharing a real gap in your skill set and also underlining that there are workarounds.

You hire people, you talk it out, you still written a book, despite having those very related processes. editor. Yeah.

So I think that we all have our strengths and we all have our gaps. And it is simply understanding and then like really acknowledging those and then doing something about it.

@46:49 – Heather Vickery

Well, this is like when you really practice self-awareness and you realize sort of what your gifts are and what your, for lack of a better word, limitations are, like where your gaps are.

Maybe that’s the term you use. Mm And then you go, okay, well, now that I know this, how do I work with this?

What do I do with it? And it’s interesting. So I started Substack thinking that originally I would just repurpose stuff that I was putting on my blog and putting on LinkedIn because it’s a whole different audience.

And I discovered was that it felt like a free space to exist with whatever the thoughts were in my head, with whatever the thing was.

And I, it’s been a lifetime. I mean, I have an English degree. I used to write a lot. It’s been a lifetime since I wrote to write and not wrote to educate or sell.

So I have been just writing, just writing and putting it out there. And that feels exciting and different. And I also know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it will attract people to me on a professional level, because when we show up as ourselves and people find us and they’re attracted, but that’s not the motivation.

It’s really nice. So I wasn’t expecting that, but I love it. And I love Substack Notes. I love Substack Notes.

@48:07 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Oh, that’s beautiful. I feel like every single person I admire is on Substack. I’ve even asked two people, should I be on Substack?

And they were like, I don’t know. It’s like a whole other learning, even though they both enjoy it. And yeah, so anyway, I am very Substack curious, but I also acknowledge my bandwidth right now is negative.

So I just don’t have the time and space to invest in another platform like that.

@48:37 – Heather Vickery

No, you need to trust that. But I would say that it’s probably okay if you decided you wanted to just have a presence to simply repurpose.

You send out these beautiful newsletters, you know, have this stuff and you put, you could just, as is, copy and paste and put it up there and just sort of see what happens.

And then if you, if and when you decided you had the bandwidth to sort of really get into the platform.

Play around. Who knows?

@49:02 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

I have also thought about that. I’m also in real time brewing up a paid content subscription because I love writing so much and I have so much to say.

I send weekly newsletters and I could send daily ones if I had that bandwidth. I just have so much to share.

And that’s where Substack could be your pal.

@49:23 – Heather Vickery

I don’t mean to be. I sound like a pusher because you can put all of that behind a paywall.

I’m not an affiliate. I don’t make any money.

@49:30 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

I have 44 subscribers and none of them pay me.

@49:33 – Heather Vickery

So it’s fine. But you could put that. So you’ve already got this audience and you said, I send a weekly newsletter.

I could do daily stuff. I’m going to put that on Substack and that’s a $5 paywall or whatever you want it to be because you get to pick that.

And you could record the pieces. So you could write it and you could do audio recording of it.

@49:52 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

You could turn it into a podcast or you could make it open to the public, but only comments and engagement could be behind a paywall.

@49:59 – Heather Vickery

Like there are a lot of options. And it doesn’t have to be different stuff than you’re already doing.

@50:04 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Yeah, I love that idea. I also love the, you know, work with what you have. Work smarter, not harder.

@50:12 – Heather Vickery

And creating a paywall platform is a lot of work. And this one is sort of done for you. So before I would invest on like, how to put us all behind a paywall to charge people for all of your brilliant knowledge, I’d be like, what system can help me do that easier?

@50:28 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Yeah. Okay, well, now I have some homework.

@50:31 – Heather Vickery

I’m going to look at this.

@50:32 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Sorry, I didn’t mean to add to your list. No, no worries. And actually, so you talked about just writing to write, having no, you know, motives other than you and your own creativity and knowing that that will still naturally attract the right people.

So that leads me directly into my next question, which is, how do you know you’re with your perfect fit people for your business?

What are the clues? How do you figure out what words are going to work? For you when you’re actually connecting with these perfect fit people.

And it doesn’t have to be just writing.

@51:04 – Heather Vickery

can be when you’re on those calls and you’re in that flow. Writing, that answer is difficult. I don’t have the answer if I’m writing.

If I’m talking, and it’s going to sound really more woo than you are, Ashley, but I just know.

@51:20 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

I just know.

@51:22 – Heather Vickery

And they just know. Like, I can almost tell instantly, there’s an energy that is carried the way people’s body language is.

And I want to be really clear, you actually do not have to be like a super woo person to work with me.

But you do have to be open to playing and exploring a possibility. And I think you are a great example of that, Ashley, because we’ve traded and we’ve done work together.

And that’s not really your jam, except you’re like, okay, Heather, I like you and I trust you. And I’m gonna let you take me on this journey.

And that’s somebody who is open to exploring and trying new things. You know, I have a couple of really intense corporate clients, like they work in account.

And they’re very type A. And when I say to them, all right, well, I have this modality. Would you like to change that behavior?

I have a subconscious reprogramming modality. they’re like, okay, sure. Because they trust me, even though they don’t know what they’re getting into.

And we do it. And then two weeks later, they go, I cannot believe that that worked.

@52:21 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

There you go.

@52:22 – Heather Vickery

Right? So it’s just somebody who’s curious enough and probably just uncomfortable enough in whatever they’re rolling around in right now that they’re willing to explore and try new things and be open-minded.

And it’s just that you can just tell. you mentioned intentionality just before this question, and then you just had exploration.

And those are two of my core values.

@52:47 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

So yes, no wonder that we are on the same wavelength. Yeah. Again, even though my baby toe is in the realm of spirituality, but I am.

Very, very curious about what makes people tick and how people show up. And yeah, I think that listening to your gut and just knowing, I would say brand messaging is like part science and part magic.

I don’t really believe in magic, but like somehow magically the word comes out.

@53:18 – Heather Vickery

But it’s funny because I actually was excited to talk with you about this. I was doing just a virtual coffee date with somebody who’s in marketing.

And we were chatting about the Costa Rica retreat. And she said to me, well, what problem are you solving with this retreat?

And I said, here’s the thing. I’m not solving a problem with the Costa Rica retreat. We’re not like you may solve problems while you’re there, but that’s not what I’m selling.

What I’m selling is you deserve space and time to exist and to rest and to explore and to connect because we don’t give ourselves those gifts.

And with marketing, I always feel like we’re supposed to come up with a problem. And it’s not, I mean, the problem might be you don’t usually give yourself the space, but we’re not solving a problem.

We’re expanding ourselves. And you may still be in that problem-solving phase. You may still be early on your journey to understanding what it means to be a conscious leader or to care for yourself or prioritize yourself and want to come.

But you also may be very far down that path. You may be like, yeah, I know it. I definitely want six days in the jungle to expand and explore.

And so I don’t know. Marketing, help me.

@54:38 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Yeah, no, I actually, I think that’s such a beautiful point because so many people are made to feel bad about what’s your problem, what’s your solution, or the opposite.

They’re feeling like they need to make their perfect fit people feel bad. And why would you want to make someone feel bad?

And then want them to work with you. So I actually really am. I am a huge fan of aspirational marketing.

So the aspiration is to feel expanded. The aspiration is to feel held. The aspiration is to have time and space that we don’t normally give ourselves.

So you’re aware of the problem. Oh, people are overworked. People are burnt out. People are feeling small in their life.

They could have many, many problems. But the aspiration is to feel different than that. And for me, that’s so much more generative and exciting.

And yes, you can absolutely empathetically hold that space for what that problem could be or what those symptoms of that problem are, that imposter syndrome.

Or for me, a lot of my clients are feeling like I’m just all over the place. I have this clear vision.

It’s in my head and heart. Why in the world can I not talk about it or write about it?

Or I have all this success in my business. And now all of sudden, I’m supposed to redo my website.

@55:56 – Heather Vickery

And I have no idea where we’re supposed to start.

@55:59 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Uh. And so the aspiration is to feel put together, to feel connected with their, their perfect people. So yes, thank you for that example of you can, you can think about solutions, but you don’t always need to.

@56:15 – Heather Vickery

I appreciate that because scarcity mindset and scarcity marketing is just not something I’m going to do. I’m just not going to do it.

And if somebody says that’s the only way you can be successful, then I’m like, well, I’m out because I’m not, I’m not going to scare people to death.

@56:29 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

I’m not going to do it. And you’re a perfect fit. People will appreciate that. And if you were to suddenly flip that switch of scarcity and you’re not enoughness, it would be so counterintuitive to how you would be working out.

It would not be consistent. And when I talk about consistency, I talk about that vibe consistency, not cadence, not, you know, you’re always at, on LinkedIn live every Monday at five.

@56:54 – Heather Vickery

I know you are quite consistent with your, with your. I am.

@56:57 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

I do a live show every Thursday, 12 PM central. Come join me. Yes, but it doesn’t have to be consistent in that way as long as where you’re showing up and how you’re showing up feels the same, like it’s the same person.

@57:09 – Heather Vickery

Well, my answer to that for me is I also just started doing Ask Me Anything Office Hours.

@57:14 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

I don’t know if you’ve seen that or not.

@57:16 – Heather Vickery

It’s Tuesdays at 12 p.m. And you can come and ask anything that you want to ask about the things that I’m trained in or whatever.

We can just talk. We can talk about the retreat. We can talk about what you’re doing for joy. Anyway, my solution to that is I follow my intuition on what I’m going to talk about.

So it drives my team crazy because I do not, because we do, I do a blog post and a LinkedIn article and a newsletter to promote the live show.

Like they’re always intertwined. I do not write them until Friday before because it has to be alive for me right now for me to feel authentic and intentional when I’m sharing it.

@57:59 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Mm-hmm. Mm And that clearly is working for you. Some people, that would drive them up a wall.

@58:04 – Heather Vickery

It It would torture some people.

@58:06 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

I know that. Yeah, and some people need that. So yet another example of just following what works for you.

And you’re perfectly fit people, right? That openness is clearly what people are wanting and needing from you.

@58:20 – Heather Vickery

Yeah.

@58:22 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

So what would you love to feel more confident in, in your messaging or your marketing in general?

@58:28 – Heather Vickery

Or when you do feel tongue-tied or like that writer’s block?

@58:33 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Is there anything you do to feel more confident?

@58:37 – Heather Vickery

Oh, well, those feel like two different questions to me.

@58:40 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Sort of, yeah.

@58:41 – Heather Vickery

So what I would like to feel more confident in is to be able to succinctly get my message across in a way that will draw my perfect fit client to me.

@58:52 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Ah, the magic of marketing.

@58:54 – Heather Vickery

That is the gold standard, right? That’s the gold standard. And I do not have any grasp on that. Whatsoever.

What I do now, I need to like really focus and really feel grounded. And it’s taken me years to get really good at this is I slow down, I will maybe put on a subliminal audio, and we can talk about what that is if you want, and do like a 15 to 20 minute meditation, I will ask myself questions, I might pull a tarot card, I might go for a walk.

And I just am like, okay, what do I need in this moment? Who do I want to be in this moment?

What is important in this moment? And, and I listened to myself.

@59:37 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

That is so simple, and yet so, so difficult. Why is it so hard to listen to ourselves who we are with all day every day and have been our entire lives and will be for the rest of our lives?

@59:49 – Heather Vickery

Because we are trained from birth to not listen to ourselves, to not think that we aren’t supposed to act like we know it all.

We are not supposed to believe that we know it all. We’re not supposed to trust ourselves. All of it’s .

That’s literally the foundation of the work I do. It’s like, no, that is not for you. But it takes a whole level of unraveling and relearning who and how we want to be to get rid of that behavior.

Which is when I say I do that thing and then I actually listen. That was a lot of work.

And I’m not perfect at it all the time.

@1:00:24 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Right, right. I recently just listened to a podcast. I’ll try to link it in the show notes. I can’t remember exactly where, but the guest was saying that healing is never done.

So think about a knife wound. You get stabbed in the street and you’re still going to have a scar.

And every time you look at that scar, you’re going to feel some sort of way, even if it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago.

And it’s the exact same with healing from whatever we are healing mentally, emotionally. We just can’t always see it in the same way.

@1:00:56 – Heather Vickery

And you can transmute it. You can transform it. You can use it differently. I mean, I think that’s the difference in having been a victim and being victimized.

@1:01:10 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Yeah. And actually, her example was very, very similar is having experienced trauma or traumatic event and being traumatized. Yeah, it is.

There are so, so, so many layers to that. And I think that idea of self-awareness and self-agency gets us so far in life, in business, and everywhere in between.

@1:01:33 – Heather Vickery

Yes, it does.

@1:01:35 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

So, I also can’t have a podcast episode without mentioning values. I know we already talked about some of my values as they’ve come up organically, but I would love to know how you integrate your values into your messaging, your marketing, any of your decisions, really.

@1:01:50 – Heather Vickery

This won’t surprise you. They are, like, tattooed onto everything that I do. Lovely. You know. know. I should be able to rattle off my core values.

@1:02:02 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Even just one example is fine.

@1:02:04 – Heather Vickery

Yeah, no, I mean, I just know them so deeply, right? Like, I’m a humanist, and so my first value is do no harm.

Like, I think we can all do whatever it is that we want to do ever in the whole wide world, as long as it doesn’t actively harm somebody else.

And so that’s why I say, you know, break the rules, because the rules are not there for you. Right?

But that doesn’t mean that you can actively hurt somebody. I believe we should stand up and take up space.

To quote, again, Kamala Harris, I am not aspiring to be humble. I’m 100% not aspiring to be humble. And I tend to attract clients who would like to stop aspiring to be humble.

How do we do that, right? And so how do we do that from a values standpoint, from an integrity standpoint?

from from values standpoint? How How I do follow my integrity. It’s really important. And it’s part of the reason that I am so outspoken.

I am so pro human rights, so pro immigration, so pro LGBTQ, so all of these things. And I’m doing it in such a big way so that, again, if you don’t like this, that’s fine, but I don’t have space.

@1:03:25 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

And I’m not trying to convince anybody.

@1:03:27 – Heather Vickery

So you’re into it or you’re not into it. But what I find is the people who are attracted to working with me or being in a community space with me, this gives them a little bit of courage to dip their toe in and start to do these things for themselves.

I know that I serve as that mentor and that mirror, and it would be a disservice to literally everyone I come across if I ever didn’t just stand up as me in all spaces.

that I know I know think do give understand, to Thank you. You’re muted.

@1:04:05 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Sorry, my son just woke up. Thank you. Yes, that value of integrity, especially, is one of mine that I share as well.

Yes. So, all right, I don’t want to leave this space without you sharing some of your beautiful tactical wisdom.

Um, so, um, is there one tactical tip you can share, um, from any of the bajillion and one modalities that you know so well and use, um, that will save people, especially multi-passionate deep thinkers, um, that will save them time or money or energy.

@1:04:41 – Heather Vickery

Any tips that you have? Yeah, I would say, so very briefly, the, the brave method, I mentioned it earlier.

It’s my own coaching method. It’s what my book is about. Um, but the three R’s, so BRAVE is an acronym.

stands for boundaries. The three R’s, reassessment, reframing, resilience, action, and accountability, vulnerability, and your result is expansion and empowerment.

me. Uh, Thank But from there, I would say it’s the three R’s. Taking the time to reassess, reframe, and get up and do it again differently.

So what that means if we’re actually being tactical is consistently, daily going, who do I want to be in this moment?

What is the most important? Or recapping your day. What worked? What didn’t? How do I feel about what happened?

How do I want to show up tomorrow? And it doesn’t have to take a lot of time, but it does take a lot of awareness.

And people don’t want to do it because we’re not always sure we’re going to like what we find or it’s going to give us more work or whatever, but it doesn’t.

Awareness changes everything. Awareness is the very first thing that is required to shift anything in your life. And you don’t have awareness if you don’t slow down and reassess and reflect.

And resiliency is the number one key indicator into whether or not a person will be successful. That is not me just spouting.

There’s the science behind it. It’s particularly it’s Angela Duckworth science. She’s amazing if you don’t know her work. Resiliency isn’t about

It’s skill. It’s about being able to figure out what worked and what didn’t and show up again, but differently.

Resiliency is what will get you there. But being resilient without awareness is just going to feel like torture.

@1:06:14 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Hmm. Yeah. And from what I appreciate most about that is the idea of who do you want to be and how do you want to be in this moment?

@1:06:26 – Heather Vickery

You mentioned that earlier, too, during one of your examples.

@1:06:29 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

In this moment, we are allowed to change. The world around us is changing. Our perfect fit people will change.

Change is inevitable. But we are here and now. So how do we want to be? Who do we want to be?

Who do we want to be with? I think that’s such a beautiful, again, permission giving caveat. Yeah. So, all right.

@1:06:59 – Heather Vickery

What’s a message? It’s that matters to you. You are worthy of taking up space. You are worthy of changing your mind.

You are worthy of doing it in a way that honors you. You are worthy because you are worthy, because you are worthy, because you exist, because you are worthy.

@1:07:13 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Beautiful. And then last question, where can people find you? How can they soak up all this goodness that you share in the world?

@1:07:22 – Heather Vickery

So vickeryandco.com is my website, and I am on LinkedIn. I am on Substack, and I am on TikTok. And sometimes I work on TikTok, and sometimes I play, but it’s a fun space.

And come find me. Join me for my Ask Me Anything office hours, Tuesdays at 12 p.m. Central. come in if you’re attracted to this and you want to know more.

Come in and say hi. Get to know me, and maybe you can come on the Costa Rica retreat with me and Ashley.

@1:07:45 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Yes, I will have the Costa Rica retreat. I’ll have all of her various resources that she mentioned, her Substack, the Spark Collective, my interview with Tate, who she mentioned.

@1:08:19 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

Heather, thank you so, so much for sharing all of your beautiful wisdom.

@1:08:26 – Heather Vickery

Thank you. was really fun.

@1:08:27 – Ashlee Sang (Ashlee Sang)

It’s so good to see you too. You too.